I'm still learning how to properly run a campaign such that everyone at the table has the most fun while getting to enjoy the worlds and stories I spend time building for each character. Things were going fine at first, but I've run into some problems and I don't know what to do. The campaign I'm currently running is with friends who used to be dungeon masters themselves and who have been helping me with rules and running this first campaign I've designed (I wanted to run a homebrew instead of a pre-built one so I wanted help).
I don't know what to call it in d&d but in other games I've heard it called "min-maxers". My friends are a lot better at d&d than me and they know it, often using their experience to run the story and push me around. They're always looking to make the most efficient character which doesn't normally bother me except things have gotten extreme. They've started arguing me over every single rule.
I remember one session, I told a player they couldn't "see" as a bat because they had been deafened (a fellow player set off a thunder clap right next to the bat because they forgot thunder is loud) and they spent an hour arguing with me over how I must be wrong because they wanted to pull off a cool maneuver as a bat that would allow them to get around a darkness spell. That same player has told me that their character's lifetime goal is to have straight 30 stats despite the fact that the character shouldn't know about stats or magic stat raising books. They're playing a cleric but spend every session complaining about how they don't do as much damage as the monk.
The other player has started getting aggressive and assuming they deserve to always get their way. There's a merchant in the campaign that won't give the players a legendary item that was once used to start a war but otherwise has been very helpful to the players. This player has started calling the merchant derogatory terms because they won't give them this one thing. They do this to every npc that doesn't give them what they want. This player insists that their character is good even though they do this and have even threatened to let an entire city get destroyed just because they don't like one of the city's council members (the council member was just doing their job and has never done anything to harm the players).
Both players also managed to min max to the point where their ACs have been around 22-25 since the beginning of the campaign (level 3). I checked and it seemed to make sense and the players got mad at me whenever I brought it up. The only way I could hit them is with a crit even when the creatures have a +5 modifier (they always find a way to boost their ac in a way that's technically not against the rules). They also have managed to max their damage to the point where, no matter what I throw against them, the monster is either killed in one round or perma stunned. This mostly bothers me because I want there to be fun combat and I don't think this is fun because there's no challenge. I've tried to get around it by making creative combat (such as adding in an oasis that was secretly a mimic. The players were fighting a different monster and didn't notice the mimic until one of them ran onto the oasis to escape the monsters hiding in the sand). However, my players get mad at me when I try to get creative because it means they can't immediately kill the monster or they take a whole 6 damage.
What can I do? I love d&d and building campaigns and want to create a fun campaign that players will be able to enjoy as much as I enjoyed playing d&d but I feel miserable. It looks like there are a lot of experienced players/dungeon masters here so I was hoping some of you might know what I could do.
I don't know what to call it in d&d but in other games I've heard it called "min-maxers". My friends are a lot better at d&d than me and they know it, often using their experience to run the story and push me around. They're always looking to make the most efficient character which doesn't normally bother me except things have gotten extreme. They've started arguing me over every single rule.
I remember one session, I told a player they couldn't "see" as a bat because they had been deafened (a fellow player set off a thunder clap right next to the bat because they forgot thunder is loud) and they spent an hour arguing with me over how I must be wrong because they wanted to pull off a cool maneuver as a bat that would allow them to get around a darkness spell. That same player has told me that their character's lifetime goal is to have straight 30 stats despite the fact that the character shouldn't know about stats or magic stat raising books. They're playing a cleric but spend every session complaining about how they don't do as much damage as the monk.
The other player has started getting aggressive and assuming they deserve to always get their way. There's a merchant in the campaign that won't give the players a legendary item that was once used to start a war but otherwise has been very helpful to the players. This player has started calling the merchant derogatory terms because they won't give them this one thing. They do this to every npc that doesn't give them what they want. This player insists that their character is good even though they do this and have even threatened to let an entire city get destroyed just because they don't like one of the city's council members (the council member was just doing their job and has never done anything to harm the players).
Both players also managed to min max to the point where their ACs have been around 22-25 since the beginning of the campaign (level 3). I checked and it seemed to make sense and the players got mad at me whenever I brought it up. The only way I could hit them is with a crit even when the creatures have a +5 modifier (they always find a way to boost their ac in a way that's technically not against the rules). They also have managed to max their damage to the point where, no matter what I throw against them, the monster is either killed in one round or perma stunned. This mostly bothers me because I want there to be fun combat and I don't think this is fun because there's no challenge. I've tried to get around it by making creative combat (such as adding in an oasis that was secretly a mimic. The players were fighting a different monster and didn't notice the mimic until one of them ran onto the oasis to escape the monsters hiding in the sand). However, my players get mad at me when I try to get creative because it means they can't immediately kill the monster or they take a whole 6 damage.
What can I do? I love d&d and building campaigns and want to create a fun campaign that players will be able to enjoy as much as I enjoyed playing d&d but I feel miserable. It looks like there are a lot of experienced players/dungeon masters here so I was hoping some of you might know what I could do.
