Help with Monk/Fighter build

[Eric Ruth]

So im trying to understand the Monk/Fighter build.

I saw one that said you use Kensei/Eldritch Knight with duelist and it seems like it doesnt actually work well together.

Agile Parry.If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.

This wants me to use unarmed attacks and not attack with my weapon.

Dueling Fighting Style.When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Of course wants me to use a weapon.

Does anyone have any insight into the build and how to get the most out of it?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I suspect some players are interpreting the dueling rules a little more loosely. The other thing with kensai is they usually use their versatile weapons two handed at low level. Technically 1d8+2 is better than 1d10, but the difference isn't enough to make it work multiclassing for.

But why do you want to make this character? What's wrong with a single class kensai?

 

[DEFCON 1]

So im trying to understand the Monk/Fighter build.

I saw one that said you use Kensei/Eldritch Knight with duelist and it seems like it doesnt actually work well together.

Agile Parry.If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.

This wants me to use unarmed attacks and not attack with my weapon.

Dueling Fighting Style.When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Of course wants me to use a weapon.

Does anyone have any insight into the build and how to get the most out of it?

I believe the assumption is that at 5th level when the Monk gets Extra Attack (and their Unarmed Strike is a d6), Agile Parry is a way to inspire Monks not to just do two 1d10 (Versatile) attacks all the time. Instead, with Extra Attack they can do a single 1d10 attack and then make a 1d6 off-hand unarmed strike with the second attack, and by doing so are given a +2 bonus to AC.

The Kensai seems to me to be the only class/subclass that can get a 1d10 damage attack using DEX, and they wanted to give a little bit of a pressure valve by inspiring Monk players to not just do two 1d10 attacks every round.

Now I could be misinterpreting the rules here between Martial Arts and Path of the Kensai, so if my assumptions are incorrect with how I'm seeing it, feel free to let me know.

 

[FrogReaver]

So im trying to understand the Monk/Fighter build.

I saw one that said you use Kensei/Eldritch Knight with duelist and it seems like it doesnt actually work well together.

Agile Parry.If you make an unarmed strike as part of the Attack action on your turn and are holding a kensei weapon, you can use it to defend yourself if it is a melee weapon. You gain a +2 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn, while the weapon is in your hand and you aren’t incapacitated.

This wants me to use unarmed attacks and not attack with my weapon.

Dueling Fighting Style.When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Of course wants me to use a weapon.

Does anyone have any insight into the build and how to get the most out of it?

5e errata and rules have flip flopped a lot about whether unarmed strikes count as a weapon. For example: at one time unarmed strikes were even listed on the weapons table. That's not the case any more. As such someone could easily be going by some of the earlier advice on whether unarmed attacks are treated like weapons.

If one follows the current rulings then the dueling style would not work on the unarmed attacks and you would be losing +2 on one attack in your attack sequence in order to make it unarmed to benefit from agile parry. I don't see the benefit of doing that over going all monk or multiclassing with warlock for hex.

 

[Yunru]

Unarmed strikes have never been treated as weapons in any capacity. You may be confusing the fact that they make melee weapon attacks for making attacks with a melee weapon.

 

[FrogReaver]

Unarmed strikes have never been treated as weapons in any capacity. You may be confusing the fact that they make melee weapon attacks for making attacks with a melee weapon.

Some of the biggest early 5e discussion were on how to properly treat unarmed strikes and the dueling style. There were many at the time that viewed unarmed strikes as counting as weapons.

 

[Yunru]

Some of the biggest early 5e discussion were on how to properly treat unarmed strikes and the dueling style. There were many at the time that viewed unarmed strikes as counting as weapons.

Yes but all official sources have been uniform in their response afaik

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes but all official sources have been uniform in their response afaik

I recall them flip flopping quite a bit on the nuances of unarmed strikes

 

[akr71]

I suspect some players are interpreting the dueling rules a little more loosely. The other thing with kensai is they usually use their versatile weapons two handed at low level. Technically 1d8+2 is better than 1d10, but the difference isn't enough to make it work multiclassing for.

But why do you want to make this character? What's wrong with a single class kensai?

Yes, this^

I don't find that there is much to be gained from multi-classing with two martial classes. Well, maybe with the exception of Barbarian/Fighter.

However, (to the OP) I don't see what prevents you from using Agile Parry & Dueling fighting style together. Wield your kensai weapon one-handed, get your +2 to AC (Parry) and your +2 to damage. Then use your Bonus Action to Unarmed Strike.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, this^
However, (to the OP) I don't see what prevents you from using Agile Parry & Dueling fighting style together. Wield your kensai weapon one-handed, get your +2 to AC (Parry) and your +2 to damage. Then use your Bonus Action to Unarmed Strike.

Nothing prevents you doing it. It just does less DPS than a single class fighter and less DPS than a single class kensai.