Help with Natural Weapons

[Vegepygmy]

EDIT: Never mind.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Doesn't really help the OP though. The way he phrased it, it looked like he was asking primarily about a PC. I didn't notice that rule before, though...thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I can see what you mean, I didn't think of having several natural weapons, all I was thinking of is if a character has two claws (then s/he can't wield a weapon in either hand) then those claws would replace the normal manufactured weapons

I don't see why you would have claws and wield a weapon?

But thanks that makes me think twice about changing the rules on that or people could end up with 42 attacks at level 20

 

[Sorry_Charry]

I don't see why you would have claws and wield a weapon?

If the claw damage wasn't particularly glamorous... I could see wielding a manufactured weapon. Lizardfolk, for example, have a claw/claw/bite routine (the 2 claws are primary, the bite is secondary).

The damage for the claws, however, is a mere 1d4+1. A weapon would make good sense for this creature in many cases (plus, it still gets the bite!)

On the upside, it always threatens... even if it finds itself disarmed.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's handy to have the claws if say...you're wielding a greatsword and suddenly become grappled, so you have a weapon to maul with. Some claws, the kind that actually are on the fingertips, you couldn't use while holding a weapon. But there's a bunch of "wolverine" (the X-Man) style claws that could be used in such a situation.

Claws are also one of the few natural weapons that comes in pairs usually. Which is nice because you only need a single Improved Natural Attack feat to enhance both, and if claw is primary, you get two attacks at full bonus instead of just one, among other benefits. If you plan to mix held weapons and natural weapons, claws obviously become a lot less useful.

 

[Dandu]

If only the claws on your feet would count.

 

[Wyvernhand]

If you use weapons that dodn't occupy your hands, like Armor Spikes or Unarmed Strikes (which can be made with with non-hand body parts), you can get your full manufactured weapon routine AND your full natural weapon routine in the same round. As I mentioned, all natural attacks become secondary regardless of whether or not they were before.

I seem to remember Weighted Cloaks and Braid Blades as other non-handed weapons, but I can't seem to find them. CScoundrel has a couple as well (Boot Blades, Elbow Blades, Knee Blades), but they give you a -2 to hit with them making them less desirable as primary weapons.

 

[Jacob]

I can see what you mean, I didn't think of having several natural weapons, all I was thinking of is if a character has two claws (then s/he can't wield a weapon in either hand) then those claws would replace the normal manufactured weapons

I don't see why you would have claws and wield a weapon?

But thanks that makes me think twice about changing the rules on that or people could end up with 42 attacks at level 20

Oh dear me, you're reminding me of my brothers first DM game. he created his own race, which was a combination of some lycanthrope and whatits, and he originally had him use natural attacks. But then he bought claws for his claws. So now they are "weapons"? It was a mess. All the more so when his STR was high, and he was making 6 attacks with his "claws" enchanted with Vicious. I hope he refines it.

Natural attacks are nice though. The idea of a Half Dragon Rouge came to mind while discussing with another player. That's 3 attacks at your highest bonus, so they're likely to hit, and if they are sneak attacks...*fist pound*

 

[Omegaxicor]

Yea I had that problem the first time I DMd I made some terrible things that made a mockery of balance...and the natural order

 

[Wyvernhand]

@ Jacob who commented on my post: Natural weapons are not "special monk weapons", and thus can not be used in conjunction with a Flurry of Blows. You can make UASs in combination with your natural attacks, but if you opt for a Flurry, you can't use any non-monk weapons as part of your full attack. Or at least thats how I read it, and I think the FAQ agrees in this case.