Here Come The PRESTIGE CLASSES! Plus Rune Magic!

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

It's a 5-level class, and also contains the basic information on how prestige classes work and how to join them - including ability, skill, level, and task-based prerequisites. Find it here.

 

[Tony Vargas]

PrCs could be used to take less 'apprentice' appropriate concepts that can't already be done via Backgrounds, and pushing them up the level scale. You might be a 1st-level character with the Noble Background and thus social status from your family, but you're not ruling a Kingdom. A legacy-Tier PrC, OTOH, could represent at least attempting to found or re-gain a kingdom, if not actually having done so as the requisite 'deed,' in a campaign where that was appropriate.

In that way PrCs could be used to more clearly define & emphasize the Tiers of play if the DM finds that desirable in his campaign. Really take the 'Prestige' part seriously. You could have PrCs that take a conventional-class character out of the arena of one Tier, and highlight the change in scope and challenge of the higher one, maybe shifting the focus of his existing class somehow. For instance, you could have a Legendary Monarch PrC that requires 11 levels or so, and high CHA, and a deed like, well, saving or conquering a kingdom or pulling a sword from a stone, or marrying the heir to the throne or somesuch. It could include 'The Monarch & the Land are One' type powers, and large number of followers, and shift the action from the usual scale of adventuring to political intrigue, war, siege, prosperity, and the like, along with a Grand Vizier, Spy-Master, and High Priest, they create a new Golden Age for the kingdom. Just a vague, radical idea... well, not /that/ radical, it's prettymuch just Name Level or Epic Destiny... ;P

 

[Plageman]

I enjoyed prestige classes. Everyone who complained about them because of bloat or abuse are simply DMs that had no control over their own games.

Sure ::roll-eyes:: 3.X era with thousands of feats and hundreds of PrC form official and unofficial source never happened...

 

[Jester David]

First, DMs have no choice in accepting new options for Adventurers League. A PC is either AL legal, or it is not. And then there are groups that are private but do round-table DMing (not that uncommon) such that one DM might be fine with an option but a later DM might not be fine with it and they can't really tell a player that the PC they've been playing in that same game can no longer be that PC.

The Adventurer's League has this handled nicely. Each PC has a story origin that unlocks certain books for use. So there's less room for overlap. If they take a prestige class from Book A they can't take options from Book B or C.

I don't disagree with the rest. Its hard. But there are options in the core books too. Multiclassing or the optional rules in the DMG. Or house rules. I'm wary of too much new content but the answer is not no new books or opinions, but being careful with the options they do add.

The tone of 5e helps since it's not assumed that all options will be used all the time. DMs don't choose to prohibit options they choose to allow them.

Third, some of the best arguments against a new option have repeatedly been made by Paizo for their new options. That being, when they release a new option, they feel compelled as game designers to support that new option in further material they are publishing. So even if it is optional, that means it because almost not-optional over time because it gets brought up in future publish materials such as adventures and splat books. The initial optional mechanic gets expanded in a future splat book, the optional ability gets put on a challenge to the party in an adventure, etc.. And the argument Paizo makes for doing this is pretty simple - they want to support what they've previously published and feel fans of those things deserve that support. Which means DMs who don't like that option either don't use that published material (which is decrease options for the DM) or has to remove that material from the new published material (which means a lot more work, and more unintended and unforeseen consequences from removing it).

One of the interesting things Paizo is doing is their "skin books", which might also be called "world books" or "theme books". Mythic Adventures, Occult Adventures, and soon Horror Adventures. Much like Heroes of Horror or Heroes of Battle in 3e. The near thing of those books is the lack of overlap. You're really only expected to use one or two at a time.

Not expecting everything to be Core or assumed in every game helps.

 

[Minigiant]

The only issue I see is tiers.

The game uses defined tiers.

1st-4th is the Apprentice tier. Warriors have one attack. Magic users has 1st and 2nd level spells (the upgraded mundane items).
5th-10th is the "Heroic" tier. Warriors have two attacks. Magic users has 3rd through 5th level spells (the minor reality warpers).
11th-16th is the Paragon tier. Warriors have an attack upgrade. Magic users has 6th through 8th level spells (AKA the game breakers).

Etc

A wizard 11 has access to "game breakers".
A wizard6/runescribe5 only has access to "reality warpers" but can cast them at stronger power.

Essentially prestige class hold you back a tier. So just like multiclassing, PrCs weaken you if you don't powergame it somehow.

Good. This discourages using PrCs for power even if you setting has tutors everywhere for story reasons.

 

[Yaarel]

I would be more comfortable with prestige classes *IF* they were more clearly ranked by their level of power.

For example, if the Rune Scribe has five levels, that start at level 5, then the prestige class should have the following levels:

Levels 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

This way, it is easy to balance the prestige classes alongside base classes. It is easy for DMs to gauge the effectiveness of a character and a team.

A three-level prestige class, might have levels 3, 4, and 5.

An eight-level prestige class, might have levels 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18.

And so on.

In every case, the expected amount of power is clear.

Unfortunately, there is still the problem of imbalance that broke 3e. Multiclassing with a prestige class that has a higher level of power, is strictly better than multiclassing with a base class that starts at the normal low levels of power, levels 1, 2, 3, and so on.

 

[Uchawi]

I reserve my opinion overall for PRCs until I see how one updates a martial class like a champion fighter, or barbarian and allows more complex choices. Spell caster PRCs are easy to add horizontal choices (wider spell selection), but I want the martial side to add more vertical in regards to extra ability to match caster spell selection, versus just a bump up to the same ability.

Otherwise, it would be nice to slide the scale on PRCs to start at 1st level, or higher, by having a way to adjust the requirements.

 

[CapnZapp]

I repeat,

Wall of words

Okay so let us never add anything to the game ever again.

See what I did there? I think you are ridiculous trying to prove logically how bad these prestige classes are.

You have arguments but how are they particular to this specific game addition? You can't expect us to take you seriously if your argument can be boiled down to "change is bad".

Dislike PrCs all you like. But be honest about it being a personal preference and stop arguing there are generic objective reasons to not have them (while still having all kinds of other stuff).

You'll thank me later. Cheers

 

[Egon]

Cool concept withe rune magic, but I really dislike the concept of prestige classes, primarily because they were so abused in 3.5.

I couldn't agree more. I'm allergic to power creep, and Prestige Classes made playing 3.5 a chore.

I personally feel that the archetypes we have with the classes are fine. There are enough options already out there to customize a character without having to power game it with PrC's to death.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It sort of looks like you get a magic item that is deliberately weakened so that you are required to take a specific class in order to make it work. If the runes existed without gating the complex abilities by a class, then they probably wouldn't be too good for an attuned item (in fact I LOVE the idea of items that turn spell slots into non-spell effects).

If you DO take the class, you get some benefits that are awesome if you took the class ASAP (woo - 3 powerful rare items in 3 levels!), but rapidly fade as you level up (woo, those 3 items I have aren't as useful as this other thing I can attune).

Overall, this seems like some magic items and some flavour for magic that has been kludged into a prestige class that is somewhat of a trap for most people who might take it (ie - people who go "hey, I found a rune, I think I might take rune master" without analyzing the benefits up to high level, and working out how far their campaign will go etc etc).

 

[fuindordm]

I'm not sure people that express this sentiment really grok the ways in which the 5E system doesn't really penalize you for choosing to cast lower-level spells with higher-level slots. Let me give you an example:

Yes, I fully understand that. But 6th to 9th-level spells also do different things. It isn't all about the damage dice.

Let me put it this way. Say I'm playing a 10th-level wizard and I discover a new master rune that no one has ever heard of before. I attune to it and decide it's interesting enough to study more. I find Yoda the rune master who offers to teach me.

Now I have the choice between taking 11th level as wizard or one level of the prestige class. In the former case I get 6th-level spells known. In the latter case I unlock all the powers of the rune I just found.

If the only powers granted by the rune are similar to low-level spells that I can scale up with my slots, then the prestige class is not even tempting.

On the other hand, if taking the prestige class will eventually unlock an effect that cannot be reproduced by casting 1st-to-5th level spells scaled up with spell slots, then the choice is at least meaningful. I could continue as a wizard and be satisfied treating the master rune as a cool magic item I found. Or I could study the rune lore and unlock a unique and interesting power that I know no other wizard will be able to duplicate. It needn't be as powerful as a Wish, but it should be something in the 6th-to-9th tier, and it should require you to spend a high-level spell slot to activate it.

For example the signature power unlocked by a "Lightning" rune could be something like Monte Cook's "Ride the Lightning" spell (from Arcana Unearthed d20) that combines a powerful lightning bolt with a medium-range teleport. Or the elemental runes could let you transform yourself into an elemental. That sort of thing.