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Here Come The PRESTIGE CLASSES! Plus Rune Magic!

Mike Mearls' latest Unearthed Arcana column presents the first ever 5E prestige class: the Rune Scribe! "Prestige classes build on the game’s broad range of basic options to represent specialized options and unique training. The first of those specialized options for fifth edition D&D is the rune scribe—a character who masters ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation."

It's a 5-level class, and also contains the basic information on how prestige classes work and how to join them - including ability, skill, level, and task-based prerequisites. Find it here.
 

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the problem is that the surveys can only tell them what % is X and witch is Y, it can't fix the situation where someone refuses to play if something is included in the game...
I don't know that a sufficiently large portion of the player base make up such a segment. There is always the comments box for those who have such a strong reaction. I personally can't imagine any option that could be added to a game I was already enjoying [that would stop me from playing]. It might change how I play, but it wouldn't stop me from playing completely.
 
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I've never been a fan of PrCs, and this article does nothing to win me over.


The MC rules for 5e were built to discourage level dipping, and yet PrCs promote level dipping. This PrC has no armor, weapon, or save proficiencies, but let's see how long that trend lasts.

The Dex and Int requirements are stupid. Firstly, a 13 is so much more agile and knowledgeable than a 12 that it utterly fails to reflect on resolving tasks. Further, agile fingers and knowledge of lore are things that can be had through practice and study. Also, the Arcana proficiency requirement makes the 13 Int requirement somewhat redundant.
 

ok, so lets say there is a harm to X% and Y % enjoy it... now we are just back to the warlord argument... "I don't want it" "I do want it"

Well, it depends on how many people want it, how much they want it, how many people do not want it, how much they don't want it, and how many don't much care either way. My point is, "don't like it" should have some meaning in an analysis. People were advocating for those who don't like it to simply not use it and therefore there would be no harm to them. There is a harm, so that part of the cost/benefit analysis should take that into account - however much impact that might be for a given option.
 

Please don't take a mocking tone with the members here.
I wasn't mocking you.

But, I certainly can't see someone just waking up some morning with all the knowledge of the wizard class.
Is that a major concern? I'd think generally either the player planned it in advance or it came up in the game. Either it's part of a progression (the same as becoming an Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster), it's something the character was exposed to, or it's something she actively decided to learn.
 


Well, it depends on how many people want it, how much they want it, how many people do not want it, how much they don't want it, and how many don't much care either way. My point is, "don't like it" should have some meaning in an analysis. People were advocating for those who don't like it to simply not use it and therefore there would be no harm to them. There is a harm, so that part of the cost/benefit analysis should take that into account - however much impact that might be for a given option.

the problem is that it can't take that into account... or else the only answer is nothing ever gets added unless it is 100% agreed to...
 


Sure, but the way it works any PC can choose any one book, so if they choose the book with the PRCs, and I don't like PRCs, I can't do anything about it. And if more and more future adventures use PRCs (as I suspect they will) it will become more and more common, and likely the adventures themselves will use PRCs in them, and then I have to decide to I even want to continue DMing AL or do I have to suck it up and be forced to use this "option" I don't like?
Well, right now zero books have Prestige Classes. And even if the next one has them, that's still a year at least a couple storyline adventures away. SCAG doesn't match up with Rage of Demons and a simmilar book would be accommodated with the following adventure. Even then there might not be room to fit the RP pre-reqs into every adventure, or only one Expeditions adventure per PrC making those desirable to play.

Your concern also assumed the Prestige Classes aren't good. That's still a big IF. Huge. PrC were problematic in 3e, but so was multiuclassing, new classes, new feats, monster templates, etc. But there's a good decade plus of feedback, which can used to make PrC better than 3e. The concept of a mini-class with custom mechanics representing specialized training or membership in an organization is perfectly fine design.
It's basically a subclass not associated with an individual class so any character can take it. I can imagine one for each of the five factions.
Even IF 5e embraces PrC there likely won't be the wealth of them that we saw in 5e, if only because there's fewer opportunities.

Except all the examples I gave involve having no choice. That's my entire point. I have no choice with AL, or with round-robin DMing, or with having to change material added in Adventures or future splats (and also the opportunity cost of them not publishing something with those pages I do like), or with dealing with the unintended consequences of an option that looked good for my campaign but turned out to not be good for it. The more options WOTC publishes, the greater the cumulative harm to those who don't like those options. So the claim that "Don't like an option, then simply don't use it, it has no impact to you" remains false. It absolutely impacts people who don't like those options, in all the ways I just spelled out.
Do you DM in Adventurer's League often? Or is this just a theoretical problem?

AL is odd, but the lack of flexibility and control is inherent to Organised Play. You don't write the adventures or pick the setting. You don't choose what accessories are used, who you play with, or often even the date you play.
Ditto round robin gaming. You don't get to choose how many magic items are awarded, the setting, events, etc.
Both require surrendering some control by their very nature. If that's the game you decided to play you have to be somewhat accepting of not being completely in control. And that's where the choice comes in, when you opt to play that kind of game and not a different game (or no game at all). There's always a choice.

Now maybe it's worth it. Maybe an option is so helpful, for so many people, that it's worth them creating it anyway. I just don't like the claim that new options don't harm those who don't like them because they can just choose to not use them. It's not a good argument - new options have negative consequences for those who don't like them in a variety of ways.
I agree. But the alternative is zero new options. I don't think that's a great alternative.
I'm happy with the slow rate of release. And it certainly feels easier to say "no" or allow different options in 5e than in the last couple editions.
 

For me, yes. Obviously, for you it's not.

I prefer a bit more reality in my games versus more of a computer game-y aspect.
is there a reason people mistakenly lable things like that? for all you know that person hates computer games... I get it with both computer games and anime a lot... I don't do a lot of either, and I hate when people lable my game style like I do
 

The MC rules for 5e were built to discourage level dipping, and yet PrCs promote level dipping.
They're preferable to five different rune based subclasses for several different classes.

This PrC has no armor, weapon, or save proficiencies, but let's see how long that trend lasts.
Hopefully that's part of the base design of PrC.

The Dex and Int requirements are stupid. Firstly, a 13 is so much more agile and knowledgeable than a 12 that it utterly fails to reflect on resolving tasks. Further, agile fingers and knowledge of lore are things that can be had through practice and study. Also, the Arcana proficiency requirement makes the 13 Int requirement somewhat redundant.
The ability score requirements are found in all multiclassesing, so PrC should be no different.

The skill proficiency is tricky, as learning new skills is hard in 5e. It does mean you need to plan your PrC choice from level 1, which was one of the problems with 3e prestige classes.
 

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