Here Comes the Jury!

[Laslo Tremaine]

I did not vote.

If I were to vote, my decision would be that your group should not allow Paladins as a player class.

I think the D&D alignment system encourages this kind of thing, so we don't use Paladins, and only give the alignment system the barest acknowledgement...

 

[peterthegreat]

I voted No.

If you were playing a Paladin of Helm you should of at least idendtified yourself first and then killed him. I know I have played many Paladin's of Helm.

 

[MDSnowman]

I'm sorry but I had to vote no. If I were playing a Lawful Good character, not just a paladin, I would have done something similar in a heart beat... bare in mind that when I do play paladins I generally go for the saintly kind, calm, serene, hesistant about killing anyone (Mostly because paladins that go around detecting evil and then smiting it tend to annoy me). But child molestion would even drive them to violence.

The paladin was only doing what he thought was right, was he going overboard in killing him in one blow?

Yes. But it's obvious that Vindicator's paladin is the charge in and smite evil type... I don't agree with that, but I certainly couldn't have expected any paladin to react too differently given the circumstances.

Even my peaceful and serene paladin would have beaten the pervert bloody and promised him a special place in hell (more likely the abyss for this sicko) if I even so much as saw him looking at someone under 18 sideways.

 

[Zimri]

I voted yes even though I am sure that no will win.
I would have liked to have seen a third "reprimanded, some loss and atonement" option.

The perp deserved death that is not in question. The girl did not deserve to be raped that too is not in question.

Did she deserve to be splattered with torrents of blood as his head fell into her lap and his eyes met hers on final time?

Is attacking from behind unannounced honorable ?

Did this "grim and gritty" town/world see justice and honor portrayed and carried out in a manne rthat worked for the greatest possible good ?

Will more people take the law into their own hands now because he "got away with it" ?

I also am opposed to DM by comitee. It is a tough spot and by all means use this resource to help you see more sides but then make up your own mind.

Also I would (though I am young here) obviously relish the chance to play prosecution attorney if it came to that. Maybe we should do it anyway, nothing binds Vindicators GM to listening to us anyway.

 

[Agemegos]

Updated to post #158

For GM Ruling (Paladin BAD, lose them): 16
Patman21967, Crothian, Herremann the Wise, MrFilthyIke, jgbrowning, Zimri, the Jester, Agemegos, SirEuain, epochrpg, dvvega, The Gryphon, Brilbadr, diaglo, Chronosome, monboesen

I am sorry to cause confusion, but I was convinced by the nay-sayers, and changed my position with post #99 in the original thread.

The paladin did wrong. He deserves two warnings for an alignment change to Chaotic (one for killing an unarmed man who was not resisting, and one for circumventing an open trial). But he is not in line for a loss or even suspension of any part of his paladin status (yet, anyway). I am still arguing (in the original thread) against the position that Vindicator's paladin 'did nothing wrong' or 'did the right thing', but not for the postion that his offence was such as to lose his paladin powers. I voted 'no' in the poll.

However, Vindicator's GM is being very soft in submitting to GMing by back-seat committee. Vindicator should accept the ruling, take his lumps, and atone (perhaps even Atone) to recover paladin status.

 

[mmu1]

The Book of Exalted Deeds has this to say:

"Mercy means giving quarter to enemies who surrender and treating criminals and prisoners with compassion and even kindness. It is, in effect, the good doctrine of respect for life taken to its logical extreme - respecting and honoring even the life of one's enemy. In a world full of enemies who show no respect for life whatsoever, it can be extremely tempting to treat foes as they have treated others, to exact revenge for slain comrades and innocents, to offer no quarter and become merciless.

A good character must not succumb to that trap."

Oh, piss on The Book of Exalted Deeds. It's not the end-all, be-all guide to playing good characters, it's a supplement for people who don't approve of all the wild partying allowed by the PHB Paladin code.

 

[Elf Witch]

After slogging through all the threads on this my vote is YES he should lose his paladin powers. But not for long just a wake up call to control his temper. His heart may have been in the right place but his actions were not.

 

[Vigilance]

I love the "but the Paladin should warn him!" crowd.

Paladin warns child molestor that he is about to die.

Child molestor decides to take child with him and die with "his loved one" or to "punish her one last time".

Attacking without warning put the child in less danger, but in our PC world we always think of the offender by instinct not the victim.

I voted no.

Chuck

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The paladin defended a helpless child in imminent danger of bodily harm (and possible subsequent killing) by killing the assailant.

In an analogous situation in the modern world, that would be termed "justifiable homicide in the defense of another." There probably wouldn't even be an arrest made. In other words, it is something considered by legislators, judges, and police to be potentially within the scope of lawful activity.

This is EASY. The Paladin keeps his powers. In no way did he violate his oath as published in the PHB.

I voted "NO."

 

[Zimri]

I love the "but the Paladin should warn him!" crowd.

Paladin warns child molestor that he is about to die.

Child molestor decides to take child with him and die with "his loved one" or to "punish her one last time".

Attacking without warning put the child in less danger, but in our PC world we always think of the offender by instinct not the victim.

I voted no.

Chuck

How exactly does grabbing him from behind when he is unaware and dragging or tossing him from the room but the child in more danger ?

The action I described saves the child from the trauma of watching a homicide take place, being covered in blood from a spurting jugular vein, and seeing the eyes of her attacker as his head falls in her lap.

It also SHOWS justice to be done, spares the honor of the paladin, gives the paladin and or local authorities the chance to find co-conspiritors.