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D&D 5E Here it is! Version 5 of my hombrewed Warlord class!

Undrave

Hero
Here I am back again asking for eyes on my Warlord! Homebrewery link here: The Warlord v5 - The Homebrewery

Note that the homebrewery works best when display on Firefox or Chrome.

So the name of the game this go around was STREAMLINING. I reworked a ton of abilities in small but, hopefully, impactful ways. I've gotten rid of the bonus actions in the main class so that you only really got ONE thing you can do per turn so you don't have to have convoluted plans everytime. I've added more passive abilities and reworked my out of combat loadout. I've also simplified some subclasses and added the 'number of time equal your proficiency bonus' thing they're now very fond of in official products.

I've ditched the Steel Protector because I realized @MattW was right that it didn't fit. I've replaced it with the Steel Vanguard. I've also moved Seasoned Instructor to level 6! In fact, I changed Seasoned Instructor to essentially be a mundane version of Guidance. It might seem like a strong bonus, but considering that a Cleric can grant up to +4 to ANY skill since level 1, the fact that it is limited to skills the Warlord knows means it has to be stronger than Guidance. Making it a consistant bonus felt like a good way to do it.

As @Stalker0 suggested I've mostly standarized distances to 30 feet so it's easier to remember. Only exception is I kept the buff to Warlord Presence distance the White Raven Tactician gets. (I was having a problem coming up with a replacement feature). I also put the note about the improvement to Battlefield Insight as part of its own feature, as recommended, and I made the scaling of the Insight Pool on Initiative part of the basic ability instead by keying it to half your proficiency bonus.

Based on another of Stalker's comment, I reworked the Warlord Presence so that it no longer adds new riders to the Shouts, only lets you basically have two 'good' Shouts regardless of your chosen Secondary score. Despite comments that WIS was no historically part of the Warlord, I feel like the ability in charge of Perception and Insight is a totally defensible pick for a battlefield commander.

I've ditched Continued Education and came up with the Booming Voice feature. I admit that Veteran's Poise and Booming Voice are the two ability I could see just switching spot on the progression, they're mostly ribbons and I'm not sure how 'good' they really are. I could also switch Seasoned Instructor and Booming Voice around so that's a bit complicated.

I think the biggest change tho, is Exposed Weakness where I've now made it linked to the Help action. Again, Stalker comes through with mentioning it as a way to accrue Insight. I decided to go the otherway and make it SPEND insight. I decided not to include a saving throw since 1) it takes up your Action, 2) it relies on your ally hitting and 3) it lowers your party's dmg output further by denying you Insight to spend with their reaction. I'm still wondering if it would be TOO good or, maybe, not even good enough to be worth spending Insight on? I've made it so YOU can trigger those weaknesses too, in case you get Hasted or you get to use your opportunity attack.

I also want to thank @Hawk Diesel for his comment, and @The Annihilargh , @Charlaquin , @Mind of tempest , @Cap'n Kobold , @Mistwell and all the others in the Out of Combat Class Feature thread I made for helping me consider things for this new version!

I'll go over some design decision I made on the subclasses in my next comment!
 

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Undrave

Hero
So here's a few comment about the subclasses. Originally, I had planned to include the Crimsom Phoenix Herald as a sort of 'Diplomat Warlord' but then I realized that 1) it would probably work better of as a type of Bard or even Rogue and 2) it meant I would have ended up with FOUR Charisma centric subclasses! The imbalance was too much so I went agaisnt it.

Ardent Soul : I've lowered the ammount of Temp HP it can grants on the regular, while keeping it able to scale better. I also made the wording of Burning Heart more in line with my intent. I made your Max CHA now be 24, since I did the same for the Chosen One.

Ballistarius : I've reworded a few things, I reworked Eagle Eye to be an active things with a Prof. Bonus number of usage. Maybe it's a little TOO strong as it is, but I didn't want to just copy Reliable Talent all the time either. I'm open to modulate the number. I'Ve reworked the fluff on Squadmaster so it makes a little more sense in universe. Obviously it means the player MUST come up with codenames. Legendary Archer Accuracy is a bit weird but I wanted the feeling of focus fire. I don't know if the Insight Cost is too low, however.

Borderlands Marshall : I kinda wanted to give them a sort of 'Song of Rest' thing based on finding like plants and stuff during a short rest, but I think this would work much better as a Feat (I've actually got a couple ideas I might work into an associated Feat package actually!) even if it also compete with the Healer feat... It's hard to tell. In the end I stuck to changing up Relentless Hunter to be more about mobility than the ability to just track someone forever. I've made Skirmisher Evasion able to trigger on a DEX saving throw, which I think makes sense. I've completely reworked the capstone ability to be all about damage YOU can make instead of just making your Insight dice d10s. I think it work better with the fluff and gives you something else you can do.

Chosen One : This one had a lot of rework going into it. I reworked Fateful Companion to work with the new paradigm of Expose Weakness, I simplified the number of uses of Divine Luck, made Magnetic Personality maybe a little TOO good? Blessed Touch used to grant 3rd level slots but I decided to downgrade to 2nd level, but also add a scaling aspect to the number of slots AND added an extra thematic spell. And I decided to not only simplify Pull of Destiny to the extreme, but also make it really funny. I just think it's a really funny concept to just keep a crit in your back pocket everyday. I can see it being really popular with Paladins. Plus, it's a level 17 capstone, it HAS to be epic!

Rabble Rouser : Still in love with that name hahaha. I actually considered giving it a 'militia trainer' type of ability to temporarily grant weapon proficiency to NPCs but the wording of the rules for it felt like a NGHTMARE. I might revisit the concept as a Feat later on though. There was maybe a few clean up of wordings, but the Rabble Rouser didn't feel like it needed much work done. Only thing I did was extend the reach of Ovrcoming the Odds to be much wider. It makes it easier to trigger now.

Silverblade Captain : Nothing much has changed here, only that Silverblade Riposte is now usuable a number of times based on your Proficiency Bonus. But I'm totally open to it being too strong... but then again you'll be fighting a LOT of magical enemies at that level so I feel like it's worth it. And Capstone features have a bit more leeway to being busted considering how late they come online.

Steel Vanguard : Here we are! The replacement for the Steel Protector! This one, admitedly, has very tenuous fluff and is almost 100% about the mechanic... but I just think those mechanics are cool. It's very much the concept of a close combat controller using the limited moves a martial character gets (grappling and shoving) to greater effects. Like the Steel Protector before them I gave them Heavy Armor and Martial Weapon proficiency, because I think the optimal loadout for the Steel Vanguard is to use a Versatile weapon to be able to grab opponents, meaning they can't use a Shield. I tried to add uses for your INT modifier, to not along add another INT subclass, but to make it so a Steel Protector has an incentive to not be as invested in CON as a Fighter would (though this subclass is still intended to be the 'MC Fighter' subclass). I didn't now what kind of non-combat feature I could give it so I leaned into the 'smarter than they look' trope and basically recycled 'Continued Education' from V4, with some fluff about equipment maintenances and spying on enemies... I think it works well enough. Giant Toppler was originally going to be an ability letting you use grabbed creatures as human shields, but I figured that it would pigeonhole the Steel Vanguard into grappling TOO much and that it would fit better as a feat (again). Master of Steel is another feature from my old Steel Protector and more proof that this subclass is Fighter -like.

White Raven Tactician : I've reworked the class to be more focused on shoutsm, and gave them a sort of 'duel wielding' ability with Shouts. This is the bossy subclass so to speak. I gave them a fighting style that make them good second-row combatants but I was mostly at a lost as to what else to give them at 3rd level (since all subclass get 2 feature at that level). I kinda wanted another non-combat feature but I was drawing a blank at this point. I reworded Analyze Enemy a little to reward good INT and make it clear what happens if you fail the roll. I didn't know what to do with level 13 and kept the boring Presence buff (it has the benefit of being simple I guess), but I cut the part that would let your allies more for free when you roll iniative, just for the sake of simplicity. And for the Capstone I decided to make it so you can just keep luck out of your Insight Pool roll a certain number of times per day. A lot of capstones are just big chunky damage buff, it's true, but at least they all got different flavor, right?
 

Stalker0

Legend
Alright, lets delve into it!

Battlefield Insight (Improve Damage): Just confirming, as written this does not consume any insight, so the Warlord can just apply the bonus round after round if they aren't spending that bonus on anything else. Just making sure as its the only ability I've seen that does that.

Expose Weakness: So we are now going with the notion of it costs me my action (though I am still getting to use help) but now no saves, it just works. I like that model a lot, I've often thought that martial characters can differentiate themselves by weaker but more consistent abilities over casters.

So we need to remember that the cost here isn't just the 2d6 insight, because I am also not taking the attack action its 1,2, or 3d6 more insight that I am not generating. That's a lot of Improved Damage power I am giving up....not to mention the loss of the attack. So personally I am not sure the 2d6 cost is really needed here, the opportunity cost is already pretty darn high.

Warlord Presence: I've already said my peace about the power of this in the last version, and though you have mixed up the bonuses so that it requires a wider range of stats to get the FULL use of it....it still feels like too much. Again if we are comparing this to the rogue, yes cunning action is good, but you already have a solid ability at 2nd level, and now your piling on an entire extra ability on top. Lastly, I think the shouts are fine as they are at 1st level, I don't think they need a buff to stay relevant.

If you really want to keep this....I would just go nice a simple. Everyone with 30 gains +initiative = your prof mod, and call it a day. that's still a very nice ability (PCs LOVE initiative), but its simple and just does the job.

Your 2nd level....you don't get ALL the toys yet ;)

Advanced Signals: Other than the cost (which we discussed above), all of the abilities seem reasonable except dirt in the eye. I would say that is notably weaker than all of the other ones (even considering the better duration), I can't ever seeing a character using it over the other options.

Booming Voice: Its a fine ribbon ability, and works fine at 7th with the other ability already there.



All the rest looks good to me!
 

Undrave

Hero
Battlefield Insight (Improve Damage): Just confirming, as written this does not consume any insight, so the Warlord can just apply the bonus round after round if they aren't spending that bonus on anything else. Just making sure as its the only ability I've seen that does that.
Yup. It's modeled off of Sneak Attack, so if all you do is use that you just keep pumping the damage.
So we need to remember that the cost here isn't just the 2d6 insight, because I am also not taking the attack action its 1,2, or 3d6 more insight that I am not generating. That's a lot of Improved Damage power I am giving up....not to mention the loss of the attack. So personally I am not sure the 2d6 cost is really needed here, the opportunity cost is already pretty darn high.
Hmm... that's a good point... What if I keep the Insight cost for the expanded range of the Help acton then? That would be something to consider spending your Insight on.
Warlord Presence: I've already said my peace about the power of this in the last version, and though you have mixed up the bonuses so that it requires a wider range of stats to get the FULL use of it....it still feels like too much. Again if we are comparing this to the rogue, yes cunning action is good, but you already have a solid ability at 2nd level, and now your piling on an entire extra ability on top. Lastly, I think the shouts are fine as they are at 1st level, I don't think they need a buff to stay relevant.
Just to be clear : you do know you only get 1 Presence, not all three, right? It's like a Fighting style, you pick your bonus and that's all you get forever.
Advanced Signals: Other than the cost (which we discussed above), all of the abilities seem reasonable except dirt in the eye. I would say that is notably weaker than all of the other ones (even considering the better duration), I can't ever seeing a character using it over the other options.
I could always just have it grant the 'Blinded' condition?
 

Quartz

Hero
I think you should simplify Battlefield Insight - just have everyone start at 1d6 with a maximum number of dice equal to your Proficiency Bonus or levels in the class, whichever is lower. You can increase the die size at later levels, e.g 1d8 at 5th level. Improve Damage needs a bigger cost than a Reaction. It’s better than a battlemaster manoeuvre and doesn’t have the -5 of the feats.

Your Shouts are immediately better than the Battlemaster Fighter’s manoeuvres so need some sort of toning down. Perhaps expenditure of BI dice? Do shouts work over telepathic links?

Warlord Presence: perhaps changeable after a Long Rest?

More later.
 



Undrave

Hero
Only one of your attacks. And you get them before the BM. And you can spam them ad nausea. And you can use them in conjunction with BI and Increase Damage.
They're supposed to be better though, because the Battlemaster is essentially a Multiclass subclass. It's Fighter+Warlord the same way Eldtrich Knight is Fighter+Wizard.
 


Tinker-TDC

Explorer
First time seeing it and the biggest thing that stands out to me is Veteran's Poise at level 11. That's the level where every class gets a big combat boost and this one gets a social boost that only works against against specific people.

Otherwise my only real criticism is how multi-attribute dependent it is. Otherwise it looks pretty cool and I'd like to play one if it wasn't MAD.
 

Undrave

Hero
Is there a Pike weapon listed in the game? Did I miss it?
Yeah, in the PHB. It's a Martial Melee Weapon, costs 5gp, inflict 1d10 piercing damage, and has the Heavy, reach and two-handed properties.
First time seeing it and the biggest thing that stands out to me is Veteran's Poise at level 11. That's the level where every class gets a big combat boost and this one gets a social boost that only works against against specific people.
Well I based my progression on the Rogue, and the Rogue gets Reliable Talent at 11th ( and the Ranger and Monk get archetype features)... Admitedly, Reliable Talent is much better than Veteran's Poise. Originally I had Seasoned Instructor at that level and Veteran's Poise at 6th, but it felt like Seasoned Instructor would be more appreciated early on in your career... I should probably add something else at 11th but I already feel like there's way too many feature so I'd need a replacement and I am at my wit's end trying to find something that could rival Reliable Talent...

OOH! How about I go with 'Improved Seasoned Instructor' and make it like a limited Reliable Talent? When you help someone to do an ability check, Prof. Bonus times per day, you can make rolls below 10 a 10? Or maybe even just a 8? Wait no that wouldn't be useful if they already have advantage... hmm...This is haaaard...

Otherwise my only real criticism is how multi-attribute dependent it is. Otherwise it looks pretty cool and I'd like to play one if it wasn't MAD.
It's only MAD if you try to be good at everything... Think of your secondary as your Warlock Pact and your subclass as your patron: it's a mix and match system and designed for characters to specialize in 1 secondary ability and the other two be potential third places. Note that all of them that have stat based bonus in the base class say 'min.+1' so you can just dump the other mental stats. The subclass you pick will have more influence on your stat line up.

It's, admitedly, a very 4e design paradigm. Don't think of it as Monk MAD (where you need high DEX, high WIS and good CON to survive), but more like how a Cleric can be blasty with lots of WIS or melee with lots of STR.

The class can also support a Lazylord build where you don't care about your attacking stat. You can take the standard array and put, for exemple, 15 CHA, 14 INT, 13 WIS, 12 DEX, 10 CON and 8 STR before racial bonus and be perfectly fine. At least, that was the design goal and I know it's a bit crazy.
 
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Tinker-TDC

Explorer
Well I based my progression on the Rogue, and the Rogue gets Reliable Talent at 11th ( and the Ranger and Monk get archetype features)... Admitedly, Reliable Talent is much better than Veteran's Poise. Originally I had Seasoned Instructor at that level and Veteran's Poise at 6th, but it felt like Seasoned Instructor would be more appreciated early on in your career... I should probably add something else at 11th but I already feel like there's way too many feature so I'd need a replacement and I am at my wit's end trying to find something that could rival Reliable Talent...

OOH! How about I go with 'Improved Seasoned Instructor' and make it like a limited Reliable Talent? When you help someone to do an ability check, Prof. Bonus times per day, you can make rolls below 10 a 10? Or maybe even just a 8? Wait no that wouldn't be useful if they already have advantage... hmm...This is haaaard...

---------------------------------

It's only MAD if you try to be good at everything... Think of your secondary as your Warlock Pact and your subclass as your patron: it's a mix and match system and designed for characters to specialize in 1 secondary ability and the other two be potential third places. Note that all of them that have stat based bonus in the base class say 'min.+1' so you can just dump the other mental stats. The subclass you pick will have more influence on your stat line up.
Don't know how to put multiple quotes in at the same time so one at a time:
First-
Rogue gets reliable talent and also gets an extra damage die at-will. Fighter gets another attack. All the full-casters get 6th level spells. Going off Fighter progression I might say give a free Shout in addition to the attack action. Maybe move Master's Insight to 11 and then make the 14th a "You always get 10 minimum on social checks or 15 minimum against soldiers. Maybe since expose weakness requires an action currently making the Help action a bonus action at 11 is flavorful and a good combat boost.


Second-
Sure, it's only MAD if you try to be good at everything but what if Abjuration and Divination used Wisdom; Evocation, Necromancy, and Transmutation used Intelligence, and Conjuration, Enchantment, and Illusion used Charisma?
Cool and flavorful? Yes.
Easy to make a character that does what your class sets out to do? Maybe but you really gotta build around it.
Now I do think all three mental stats can pretty easily be justified for Warlord but maybe something like choosing at early levels and then leaving archetypes as specific stats so if you know you're going Chosen One you choose Charisma or if you know you're going Borderlands Marshal you choose Wisdom?
 

Tinker-TDC

Explorer
That is to say, 5e classes that focus on mental abilities tend to have only one because you can't exactly dump CON (or DEX if you don't have heavy armor access).
 

Undrave

Hero
Rogue gets reliable talent and also gets an extra damage die at-will. Fighter gets another attack. All the full-casters get 6th level spells. Going off Fighter progression I might say give a free Shout in addition to the attack action. Maybe move Master's Insight to 11 and then make the 14th a "You always get 10 minimum on social checks or 15 minimum against soldiers. Maybe since expose weakness requires an action currently making the Help action a bonus action at 11 is flavorful and a good combat boost.
Hm... I hadn't taken into account the bump to Sneak Attack and I did recalibrate the Insight dice progression. I do like your suggestion but I think what I could do is split Master's Insight into two and have the bonus reaction at level 11, move a modified Veteran's Poise to 14, but also keep the 3d6 on attack improvement at level 14. Do you think that would be big enough of a bonus at 11?
Now I do think all three mental stats can pretty easily be justified for Warlord but maybe something like choosing at early levels and then leaving archetypes as specific stats so if you know you're going Chosen One you choose Charisma or if you know you're going Borderlands Marshal you choose Wisdom?
That's the plan yes. It's why I went and made Presences buff a second Shout that's not normally based off their secondary stat, so that you can basically have 2 'good' Shout and 1 regular shout. The Presence orients your build (but it is not, actually, impossible to pick a sub-optimal presence that doesn't use the same ability as your sub class). Currently, INT/CHA/WIS modifiers only come into play, in the base class, in the Shouts and the Presence... I could remove them from Shouts entirely so that Presence is what gives your character its direction (but the idea was that you would favor the shout(s) that better match your stats, giving rise to a different play style depending on which secondary you favor).

As a side note, the Ballistarius is fairly neutral, the Borderlands Marshal only has 1 feature that uses WIS mod, and the Chosen One is leaning to Charisma but doesn't actually use your mod for anything beyond Cure Wounds and gets a free bump to it. I don't think I quite made INT/CHA/WIS as crucial to the Warlord as a Spellcasting ability is to a Paladin or a Ranger.

That is to say, 5e classes that focus on mental abilities tend to have only one because you can't exactly dump CON (or DEX if you don't have heavy armor access).

I actually took the lack of CON into account when I gave the Warlord d10 hit dice. I expected the class wouldn't be able to invest in CON as much so, event with a hit die comparable to a Fighter, they would have lower HP more in line with a d8 class. I also gave them shield to help with AC. I didn't want them to be too frail, but also not as tough as a Fighter without cost.
 

Quartz

Hero
First time seeing it and the biggest thing that stands out to me is Veteran's Poise at level 11. That's the level where every class gets a big combat boost and this one gets a social boost that only works against against specific people.

It gets a feast at 10th level.
 

Undrave

Hero
Battlefield Insight (Improve Damage): Just confirming, as written this does not consume any insight, so the Warlord can just apply the bonus round after round if they aren't spending that bonus on anything else. Just making sure as its the only ability I've seen that does that.
Improve Damage needs a bigger cost than a Reaction. It’s better than a battlemaster manoeuvre and doesn’t have the -5 of the feats.
I was thinking on it and what if it removed 1d6 from the pool afterward?

And again, I based my class off of the Rogue so Battlefield Insight is the Sneak Attack replacement, only it costs a Reaction and you can't use it yourself... and you have ways to deplete it. It's why the basic application doesn't expend dice. If a Rogue with a Rapier and a Barbarian with a Greataxe each land a hit, then it's the same thing as a Warlord attacking with a Longsword, and then boosting the Barbarian's hit with Battlefield Insight. It's the same ammount of damage, just with a different spread. If you spend your action doing a Shout or Exposing Weakness, you then bring your party's overall output down but you've made the party more effective at other things and probably saved someone some HP. Taking all that into account, I felt it was fair that Improve Damage didn't cost anything. But maybe I'm wrong in my analysis?
 



Quartz

Hero
I was thinking on it and what if it removed 1d6 from the pool afterward?

Yes, that feels good.

And again, I based my class off of the Rogue so Battlefield Insight is the Sneak Attack replacement, only it costs a Reaction and you can't use it yourself...

That you can't use it yourself is actually a net positive: you can use it from safety. Sneak Attack with a melee weapon requires getting up and personal.

In general, I like your ideas; I just think that they need a little toning down. If you were to base everything off the generation and consumption of insight dice, that would be a very good start.
 

Battlefield Insight's option Improve Precision should probably be triggered by an ally targeting a creature not them attacking
Otherwise they attack, you shout, they get advantage and retroactively hit

The Shouts should probably grant their bonus tied to something reliable, like half proficiency rather than pushing the character to try and have Wisdom and Intelligence and Charisma as high as possible. Or all the class' options should use the same secondary stat. As written a character will have one effective shout, one that grants a minor bonus, and one likely with a penalty
Rise Up should target a creature under an effect a save can end rather a condition. There are some effects that aren't conditions that cause conditions

Under Expose Weakness, Distracted should probably just prevent the target from taking reactions. It's simpler to say and manage
Under the secondary ability to increase the range you can Help it could be 10 feet per die. Insight dies are big and increase slowly

Advanced Signals, Exposed Nerves. There no mechanic in the game called an "attribute"

The second benefit of Master's Insight could be cleaned up. Perhaps "The first time in a round you use your Battlefield Insight it doesn't use your reaction." Or a bonus reaction that can only be used for Battlefield Insight

Tempered Body should say "you gain proficiency in Strength and Constitution saving throws."

Ultimate Awareness is odd. A +10 bonus means the character is always rolling a natural 20 for Perception and Investigation

Peerless Insight should add 1d6 to your Insight Pool at the start of EACH of your turns. Otherwise it's just once.
 

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