Pathfinder 2E Here's A Pathfinder 2E Goblin

Paizo has shared part of its upcoming Bestiary for Pathfinder 2nd Edition with a quick look at the goblin entry.

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How does this differ from the playtest version? Let's take a look! Generally the layout is much the same with some minor tweaks; the differences appear to be under the hood as various numbers change.

• It's gone from CREATURE 0 to CREATURE -1.
• Perception has increased from +1 to +2.
• Skills no longer have an initial 'blanket' entry; in the playtest goblin skills were "–2; Acrobatics +3, Athletics +3, Stealth +5"; now they're "Acrobaitcs +5, Athletics +2, Nature +1, Stealth +5".
• Con has increased to +1
• AC has gone from 14 to 16, TAC is gone, Fort, Ref, and Will have all increased significantly
• Dogslicer attack has gone from +6 to +8 and now has finesse added
• Shortbow attack has gone from +6 to +8, and various additional info added in parenthesis

 

[MockingBird]

Anyone know if AD&D 1e and 2e were publicly play tested? Is public play testing sort of a new thing?

 

[Zardnaar]

2E was playtested, it wasn't exactly public but wasn't hush hush. One of them posted on the old WotC forums and had photos of 2E playtest material.

Dragon magazine was used but I can't recall in what capacity I think they used it for playtested recruitment but it's been a while.

1E was mostly Gary's friends and family from what I have read.

 

[Parmandur]

Anyone know if AD&D 1e and 2e were publicly play tested? Is public play testing sort of a new thing?

Not in a public way, no: TSR was not known for rigorous playtesting of any sort, and until 5E WotC kept it to smaller private playtesting methods, though rigorous.

Pathfinder was, to my knowledge, the first big public attempt at playtesting an RPG.

 

[Staffan]

Anyone know if AD&D 1e and 2e were publicly play tested? Is public play testing sort of a new thing?

Public playtest pretty much depends on the Internet, and that wasn't really a thing for 1e or 2e.

If one wants to be snarky, one could claim that Vampire 1st ed was the first large-scale public playtest: a softcover book that got replaced by a hardcover 2nd edition two years after release with a lot of systems tightened up and such.

 

[billd91]

It does: they shouldn't have. Rather, they should have returned to supporting D&D as a 3pp.

I keep telling people here that wasn't going to happen. Paizo got badly burned by being too dependent on WotC intellectual property. While it may seem like Wizards is less likely to be able to burn anyone like they did Paizo in the 4e switch (and the cumulative effect of their decisions burned Paizo hard), what happens if they change direction again?

 

[GreyLord]

2E was playtested, it wasn't exactly public but wasn't hush hush. One of them posted on the old WotC forums and had photos of 2E playtest material.

Dragon magazine was used but I can't recall in what capacity I think they used it for playtested recruitment but it's been a while.

1E was mostly Gary's friends and family from what I have read.

1e was really basically a conglomeration of all the OD&D supplemental rules via the supplments and things found in Dragon, tossed well, and put together. In that light, one could say the entirety of OD&D was the 1e playtest.

However, saying it was also the TSR staff, family and friends is probably apt as well in regards to having any sort of playtest.

 

[Parmandur]

I keep telling people here that wasn't going to happen. Paizo got badly burned by being too dependent on WotC intellectual property. While it may seem like Wizards is less likely to be able to burn anyone like they did Paizo in the 4e switch (and the cumulative effect of their decisions burned Paizo hard), what happens if they change direction again?

The OGL means they couldn't be burnt, so I'm not sure why you keep saying that: if anything, if WotC abandoned 5E the same way, it would open up the same opportunity as with 4E. Nobody suggests that they should go into direct business with WotC necessarily, just use the OGL to sell Adventures.

 

[Zardnaar]

Eventually WotC will announce a new edition and sales of old material usually tank when that happens so Paizo is still screwed.

At Pathfinders height they had around 20% of what 5E has now. They would be viable with half that number or even less which is roughly where they were 2010 or so.

They can probably drop down to a handful of staff if they have to.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I keep telling people here that wasn't going to happen. Paizo got badly burned by being too dependent on WotC intellectual property. While it may seem like Wizards is less likely to be able to burn anyone like they did Paizo in the 4e switch (and the cumulative effect of their decisions burned Paizo hard), what happens if they change direction again?

Ultimately Paizo benefited from being "burned" - really, frozen out of a doomed 'opportunity' - and D&D has little impetus to change direction in the foreseeable future.

Besides, it's not like they'd go back to printing magazines for them. They could have put all the adventures in their own setting, even couched crunch books that way, kinda like SCAG did.

Eventually WotC will announce a new edition and sales of old material usually tank when that happens so Paizo is still screwed.

Or, maybe 5e will continue to be like 1e and the next ed after it won't be substantively different?

 

[Zardnaar]

Maybe but sales of older material will still likely tank a'la 3.0 and 3.5.

1E might be an exception as the phb was reprinted after the 2E one came out and ToEE was reprinted into the 2E era as well. That being said TSR had a heap of left over older stock when the folded that was pre 2E as well.