D&D (2024) Here's The New 2024 Player's Handbook Wizard Art

 

[Chaosmancer]

of course opinions matter, but frequently they are just that, opinions, not facts. Heck, even when there are actual facts, many opinions ignore them and are contradicted by them.

Here, there is no actual fact to push back against, it is all opinion / personal taste.

Just like you can like music I would not voluntarily listen to, I can find the picture to fall into superhero imagery rather than fantasy, want it to be grittier, or do not think she should wear glasses. To me these are all valid options, some of which I agree with. They are just as valid as liking the art for whatever reason you give.

The difference, as @ezo said, is that the criticisms got a lot of back and forth while the ones who liked it were accepted and did not get pushback, despite both being equally valid and acceptable.

It is fine to say you disagree with someone’s opinion, I reserve the right to do the same. I don’t think we needed 100 pages of back and forth about glasses though, and as far as I can tell, not a single opinion was changed (which is not surprising, it is hard enough to do that when there are objective facts involved…)

Sure, you can say that the imagery is too superhero. And I can say it is not. But you then can't get upset with me if I point out that, really, it doesn't look "superhero" and that that is such a vague term as to be nearly worthless as a category, and say "well, that is just my opinion so you can't say anything about it."

I can say things about it. It is a discussion. You don't have the unilateral right to end the discussion just because it is your opinion and therefore cannot be discussed by others.

 

[Chaosmancer]

And to clarify more on my stance of the "superhero" pose. Supposedly it is superheroic because the person is

a) Floating
B) their arms are mostly outstretched

Well....

View attachment 1712417465303.webp

The pose of flying in the air, arms outstretched, is something that is meant to convey a sense of power and majesty. It is used in superhero stories, but it is older than that, and just as often used in mythological or religious contexts (many superhero stories use mythological symbolism to convey the sense of power and majesty of the heroes)

I think it is far more accurate that many people who are disliking the artwork are opposed to that sense of power, hence why the criticism is often accompanied with the idea that they want the art to be "grittier" as well. Many people here like Low Fantasy instead of High Fantasy, something less like the tales of mythology from the past and more like westerns or noir films. That is why the idea of "anime" or "superheroes" gets thrown around, because those things represent the power included in high fantasy fairly often, and I can understand the critique. That's why I've never once pushed back on someone wanting "Grittier" art except to point out that that style of fantasy hasn't fit DnD for a LOOONG time, and expecting DnD to suddenly do a 180 and take back nearly three decades of precedent is unrealistic.

 

[Reef]

I think the analogy of music was apt. I'm old, and the music I listen to is mostly old as well. I generally think it's far superior to what is currently being played. I don't think anyone will tell me I'm not entitled to that position.

But, if I go to a forum discussing contemporary music, and I start stating that a band is bad because it doesn't fit my ideas from 30 years ago ("How is that even a guitarist? He's not even using hairspray!"), there's going to be questions and pushbacks.

I think a lot of criticism of this piece seems to stem from the fact that some people prefer an older aesthetic to their games. More Tolkien/Sword and Sorcery. Which is perfectly fine! I'll be the first to admit that this wizard doesn't look like a Tolkien wizard. But D&D wizards haven't looked like that for at least two editions.

Saying you don't like this art because it doesn't look like the wizards in your home game and/or setting is one thing. Saying it's bad in general, because it doesn't look like wizards period (despite the fact that very much is what a modern wizard looks like) is what is going to get people questioning your opinion.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Again, that's not the issue.

It's the REPEATED statement that you don't like it, for a STATED reason, then insisting that just because it's an "opinion" everyone has to accept it and never ask any questions. As if somehow making something an opinion confers some special status that makes it immune to discussion.

What's the point of stating an opinion on a discussion board, then repeatedly doubling down on the opinion, but then refusing to actually discuss the opinion? I'm sorry, but, if you state that X is "the worst Y ever", that's going to need a bit more than, "well it's just my opinion, why can't you accept that?"

I mean, if I stated, "In my opinion, Advanced Dungeons and Dragons isn't actually a roleplaying game. It's a wargame pretending to be a roleplaying game and it's not until we get to 3rd edition D&D that we actually started having a real roleplaying game." I would likely get a fair bit of push back. And rightfully so. That's an statement that's going to need some clarification and expanding. Yet, apparently, sticking IMO on the front of that means no one can ever disagree with me? That everyone must just accept my opinion?

Bugger that.

I really did not say what you think I did.

I totally agree with you 100%.

I just wanted to remind everyone that it is ok to not like something for reasons you can't describe.
And that such dislikes are not helpful when discussing something and that they are not helpful at all for a discussion forum.

It is also not OK to say: this is a naughty word piece of art when in reality you meant: I don't like it because personal preference.

 

[Vaalingrade]

"I hate how old art is so bad. It's all pirate and Yahtzee. They didn't wear shoes like that in Earth's Medieval period, so they shouldn't wear them like that in a fantastical otherworld because technology clearly develops in levels in all places at the exact same rate.

No one better comment on this because that's.... like my opinion, man."

 

[Autumnal]

I would like to post a critique on the issue of criticism, but unfortunately I have misplaced my glasses...

And therefore you are a superhero. Strike a pose and go fight some crime.

 

[mamba]

Sure, you can say that the imagery is too superhero. And I can say it is not. But you then can't get upset with me

agreed, I don't think I ever did get upset. Not sure if someone else did get upset about people disagreeing with them either, the one case I can think of I thought was more about repeatedly being asked to justify their opinion than about people disagreeing with it

 

[mamba]

And to clarify more on my stance of the "superhero" pose. Supposedly it is superheroic because the person is

a) Floating
B) their arms are mostly outstretched

Well....

and next you tell me that the Son of God is not at a minimum a superhero

 

[Clint_L]

I just wanted to remind everyone that it is ok to not like something for reasons you can't describe.
And that such dislikes are not helpful when discussing something and that they are not helpful at all for a discussion forum.

Our classes are very discussion-based, so I share this video with my students at the start of the year (I hope it is forum-appropriate):

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Lots of people living in lots of places with names that are not traditional to that place who speak like the locals.
Lots of people living in lots of places who are expats and retain their accents.
I've also met a lot of people from various countries who speak with a native English, American, or Australian accent when they speak English. My wife didn't come to the US until college but when she speaks English, you'd think she grew up in the American midwest.

I think increased ability to move around the world and even more advanced communications in Star Trek's future would make all of the above even more common.

I salute this display of true, in-depth, obstructive nerdery. I have been there so I cannot judge it too harshly.