D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Fenris-77]

Sure, but if manifesting your powers results in Displays, then the guards will likely still know it's you even if you aren't waving your hands around, speaking, or using material components.

Yup, I think in the interests of balance that Psionics should also require an actual ability selection to be able to manifest a power without external signals. Maybe a light glow, the smell of cabbage, little tweety birds around your head, whatever.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I think the presence/absence of VSM is in general a point of distinction between magic and psychic powers, though there are always exceptions. Although some psychics do use simple gestures – putting hands to temples, extending an arm – imo these are merely for show and aren’t the same as, frex, Doctor Strange’s ‘devil horns’ gesture. Professor X, Psi Judge Anderson, Carrie, Eleven, jedi knights, Deanna Troi, Spock, and Great Cthulhu can all use their powers without VSM or extended ritual actions.

EDIT: Spock's mind meld seems to require physical contact, but that isn't quite the same thing as a D&D spell's somatic component (though it's a fine distinction).

Compare with Doctor Strange’s gestures and incantations, Zatanna’s backwards incantations, Saruman and Gandalf’s dependence on their staffs, Gandalf speaking a “word of Command” in the Mines of Moria, incantations in Harry Potter, Prospero’s dependence on his books and staff, and the classic magical summoning circle.

The panels below depict Doctor Strange entrapped and unable to use magic, in part because his hands are constrained.
[image snipped]

I still don't see the distinction. Your examples of psionics vs magic are selective. Prof X often uses somatic gestures when doing anything more than light telepathy (he touches his temple) and definitely needs a complex material component for his most powerful works (Cerebro). Jedi Knights often had somatic components to their efforts. Only Masters didn't always use them, and they still often did. Eleven uses some, sometimes. Spock always did -- it wasn't just contact, it was specific contact in a specific way, often with a ritual mantra. Cthulhu is an Old God -- he's probably using all kinda of VSM, we just can't comprehend it.

On the magic side, Dr Strange does lots of magic without VSM, and lots with. Seems arbitrary. Your panel has him locked down with a spell, no items, and bound, and the binding only prevents him from casting spells with his hands, as it notes. He does plenty without hands. The Potter-verse has magic without VSM as well, although it usually involves S. Gandalf does magic without VSM as well.

It appears that, fictionally, sources are all over the place as to what requires what when. I don't get why psionics in D&D MUST NOT HAVE VSM. It seems an oddly narrow way to constrain what counts as true psionics in D&D. As many have noted, it really seems a flavor thing rather than anything actually important to the use, as there's a whole discussion on how to adjust psionics with noticeable cues other than VSM so as to not cause unintended rules interactions due to the removal of VSM. That's looking to fix a problem caused by removal of VSM by adding equivalents to VSM that just aren't VSM. That's... weird. Why not change the VSM to be psionically themed things -- crystals, mantras, gestures -- rather than have to fix things because you removed VSM?

 

[Krachek]

Insight won't help you know a spell is being cast. Insight would be of some help for social situations, but it's a weak tool IMO. The real power there without VSM is in any game where magic would be appropriately illegal when used indiscriminately, especially in social situation where the nobility is concerned. If you start casting in the middle of the Duke's ball the most reasonable response from his guards and/or magical advisors is to gank you before you finish. No VSM opens up a whole bunch of options.

Even if there is no VSM, in most movie you can always know that the hero is using its psionic just by looking at its face. So we can start a new debate: if despite of absence of VSM, Psionic use can still be perceivable?
if the debate get to harsh we can hire a private lab to do a formal study on this.

 

[Aldarc]

@Ovinomancer, I think that a possible distinction is that these are primarily cues of visual storytelling for the reader/audience to signify that the person is using what are otherwise invisible/subtle powers. Even if it is just a flavor thing, I do think that this in itself can be a compelling enough reason to maintain this, much in the same way that "primarily a flavor things" flavor our sense for various D&Disms. Why must a wizard have a spellbook? Why have Verbal, Somatic, or Material components at all? While a case could be made for balance, it seems like these are mainly a flavor thing.

 

[Fenris-77]

Even if there is no VSM, in most movie you can always know that the hero is using its psionic just by looking at its face. So we can start a new debate: if despite of absence of VSM, Psionic use can still be perceivable?
if the debate get to harsh we can hire a private lab to do a formal study on this.

Lets not overthink this. Either there's a mechanic or rule that states psionics are visible as they are being cast, and thus perhaps countered, or there isn't. It's really that simple. I think there should be, as I stated above, whatever that might look like, although I also think it shouldn't have anything to do with VSM if the goal is to have a system that seems separate from magic somehow.

 

[Krachek]

Lets not overthink this. Either there's a mechanic or rule that states psionics are visible as they are being cast, and thus perhaps countered, or there isn't. It's really that simple. I think there should be, as I stated above, whatever that might look like, although I also think it shouldn't have anything to do with VSM if the goal is to have a system that seems separate from magic somehow.

5ed has a lot of grey zone, and even the rule in Xanathar guide for identifying magic is still a grey one.
Of course it would be simple if they state that seeing a character using Psionic or magic is always noticeable despite the absence of VSM. But for now they refuse to be so clear in the rules.

 

[Fenris-77]

5ed has a lot of grey zone, and even the rule in Xanathar guide for identifying magic is still a grey one.
Of course it would be simple if they state that seeing a character using Psionic or magic is always noticeable despite the absence of VSM. But for now they refuse to be so clear in the rules.

Sure, that's true so far. I don't know that it warrants a lot of debate about the particulars though. You either think it should be detectable or you don't, everything else is just window dressing.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Can always use an extra point cost or require a psi die roll to conceal displays. Or cost all psi powers baseline as if they were spells cast with subtle metamagic, and offer a reduction if the psychic uses VSM like a crystal, focusing gestures, or a meditative chant.

 

[Krachek]

Sure, that's true so far. I don't know that it warrants a lot of debate about the particulars though. You either think it should be detectable or you don't, everything else is just window dressing.

personally I like the idea that usage of magic ( and psionic) always produce visual, audible sign, such as glow in the eyes, sparkling, ringing, etc..
it will avoid a lot of paranoia in social behavior.

 

[Samloyal23]

personally I like the idea that usage of magic ( and psionic) always produce visual, audible sign, such as glow in the eyes, sparkling, ringing, etc..
it will avoid a lot of paranoia in social behavior.

The paranoia comes with the territory, psionic characters always face suspicion if not persecution because they cannot be trusted. Even spellcasters are wary of them because you never know when they are using their powers. That paranoia is price of power.