Heroes of Shadow: Assassins, Hexblades, and Necromancers!

[Majoru Oakheart]

Less a summons and more a Shaman's Spirit Companion. Unless you're calling the Shaman a controller because they have a "Summoned" creature?

They are definitely a controller secondary. Their spirit doesn't really control in the same way that summoned creatures do. They are completely immune to area attacks and a large number of attacks that target them specifically don't do enough damage to destroy them. Not being a creature, they can't have status effects applied to them and they can be recreated at will. So, there isn't much incentive for the enemies to try to take it out and waste their attacks.

Meanwhile, with Wizard's summoned creatures, they do significant damage with low hitpoints. Might as well spend an attack destroying them since destroying them effectively ends a daily power. And I tend to define control as anything that causes the enemies to not make optimal choices. In the case of summoned creatures, the enemy is forced to attack a creature other than one of the PCs as their action to avoid taking damage.

Controlling and Defending are very similar. Controller prevent enemies from making attacks on the party. Defenders force the enemies to attack THEM.

 

[Obryn]

Less a summons and more a Shaman's Spirit Companion. Unless you're calling the Shaman a controller because they have a "Summoned" creature?

I dunno - are you calling them a Defender because enemies are encouraged to attack the spirit in order to avoid effects?

-O

 

[UngeheuerLich]

When the necromancer is the controller, where does it leave the illusionist?

Personally i like someone who has learned enough of life´s essentials by studying the dead... some abilies to numb aching wounds and mending it after the battle would be a nice thing for a necromancer...

 

[Kobold Avenger]

When the necromancer is the controller, where does it leave the illusionist?

The Illusionist is a Wizard build, specifically what happens when you take the Deceptive Orb specialty.

Personally i like someone who has learned enough of life´s essentials by studying the dead... some abilies to numb aching wounds and mending it after the battle would be a nice thing for a necromancer...

Most likely the Necromancer will get Rituals for free.

 

[Rechan]

I dunno - are you calling them a Defender because enemies are encouraged to attack the spirit in order to avoid effects?

Enemies are NOT encouraged to attack the spirit; there's no effect which enemies are avoiding. There's no incentive to do so. The spirit's main functions are: Conduit for powers for the Shaman (melee attacks through it, enemies adjacent to spirit get effects), take up a square, and take OAs against enemies that move away without shifting.

With a minor action the shaman can just pop the spirit back into place, so attacking a spirit really has no real utility for an enemy.

 

[circadianwolf]

Aside from all those powers in PP that have the spirit mark the target, of course.

 

[Camelot]

They are definitely a controller secondary.

It's funny you say that, since shaman's are listed in the Player's Handbook 2 as being Leader, secondary defender or striker. However, it's true that Primal Power introduced the World Speaker Shaman, which is a secondary controller. Still, that's one out of four options. Most shamans are secondary strikers.

Their spirit doesn't really control in the same way that summoned creatures do. They are completely immune to area attacks and a large number of attacks that target them specifically don't do enough damage to destroy them. Not being a creature, they can't have status effects applied to them and they can be recreated at will. So, there isn't much incentive for the enemies to try to take it out and waste their attacks.

Meanwhile, with Wizard's summoned creatures, they do significant damage with low hitpoints. Might as well spend an attack destroying them since destroying them effectively ends a daily power. And I tend to define control as anything that causes the enemies to not make optimal choices. In the case of summoned creatures, the enemy is forced to attack a creature other than one of the PCs as their action to avoid taking damage.

Controlling and Defending are very similar. Controller prevent enemies from making attacks on the party. Defenders force the enemies to attack THEM.

I do like this definition of Controller, though. Good thinking.

 

[GameDoc]

Just wondering how people's thoughts have changed since we've seen the Essentials classes.

The Hexblade vis-a-vis Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms is actually a Warlock build. So, will Heroes of Shadow basically give us the shadow pact version of the Warlock-Hexblade? Will it be a striker or might the build fill another role?

Will the Necromancer be a Mage build or a totally new class? Seems like they are open to multiple power sources for essentials builds (see rangers and assassins). So I could see a Mage-Necromancer being a "shadow and arcane controller."

 

[Ajar]

The necromancer and nethermancer have been revealed by Wizards already in their 2011 product preview on the main D&D site. Both are wizard builds and they seem to be Essentiallized. The blackguard is a paladin build.

 

[WalterKovacs]

The necromancer and nethermancer have been revealed by Wizards already in their 2011 product preview on the main D&D site. Both are wizard builds and they seem to be Essentiallized. The blackguard is a paladin build.

Technically speaking:

Nethemancy and Necromancy are schools, which means they will be part of the Mage build (i.e., the Essential wizard). Outside of some examples, which appear to replace powers with class features (like the spoiled summons), most of the powers will have the keywords which interact with the Mage school specialties, but are usable by all wizards.

The blackguard is an entirely new build as it's a striker, although it's use of vices will likely mirror in some ways the cavalier's use of virtue to determine some of it's class features. Not sure yet, although it's quite possible that it will resemble Essentialized builds (then again ... the Mage isn't very Essentialized ... it is similar to many builds from Divine Power or Martial Power, etc, which give up some class features [implement mastery and ritual casting for free] in exchange for othe class features [school specialization, encounter powers in spellbook, free magic missle] and lacks many of the 'staples' of Essential builds like removing choice of encounter powers).