D&D 5E Hex and Bestow Curse

[FormerlyHemlock]

Curses and debuffs aren't necessarily terrible in this game--they're mostly just terrible in the direct combat portion of the game. The less time you spend in the exploration/social pillars, and the more you play 5E like 4E instead of OD&D/AD&D, the worse Bestow Curse will look. On the other hand, if you're a brave knight competing in a jousting tournament, and right before your first match a black raven (witch's familiar, though you don't know this) lands on your shoulder and sends you into a stupor of thought (Wisdom save to act each round) for the next 8 hours... well, that jousting tournament just got a lot more interesting!

I hear about people playing all-combat games and I feel bad for them. I enjoy combat as a form of problem-solving, but the real fun of D&D over CRPGs lies in exploring "what would you do if you were a powerful warrior/wizard in this situation?" If you never get to Suggest to a guard that "these aren't the droids you're looking for" because all your game sessions are about rolling initiative and DPR against dragons, you're missing out on 1/3 of the fun of this game in my opinion.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I personally think the warlock version ought to knock the target prone and not allow him to stand back up. We could always use a good 'hex crawl'.

 

[Ashrym]

Hex is way better than bestow curse. Doing almost the same, casting time as bonus and to top all off it is a first level spell.

No concentration. Hex doesn't list the option to have targets require a saving throw or do nothing. Bestow curse in a 5th level slot is a shut it down and ignore it ability. Hex is just more damage and/or ability check penalties on something the character isn't ignoring.

Its the same thing with other so-called curses. Mind Fog. Seems pretty cool, -10 to saves... but you have to beat a WIS Save in the first place before it works. May as well used just a regular Hold Person spell; same save, and the target is effectively dead meat. 99% of the time, its pointless to cast a set-up curse. Setting up combos sounds like fun, but the set up to cast these spells generally doesn't make it worthwhile. Curses are just terrible spells in this game.

Is mind fog in one of the supplements? I don't see it in the 5e PHB for some reason. In 3e, mindfog was used because it was an area effect so one person fogs and the other person does whatever. It would be useless on a single target (but so would hold person if the target isn't humanoid). A person could have just cast whatever, but this is what happens: 30% save rate gives 70% area targets mezzed. Fog first and 70% are at 95% while the other 30% are still at 70%. Following that gets 87.5% of the targets instead of 70% of the targets.

If you needed that type of crowd control accuracy then a set up mindfog area prepping for the mezz in 3e would do the trick. Definitely not a common need unless playing DDO (mindfog discoballs ) instead of tabletop, but the "he would have failed the other spell anyway" isn't entirely correct. There is an advantage in having both up. In 5e, concentration would likely kill it if the spell exists and I'm just not seeing it.

As for hold person, what if the target isn't a humanoid? Or what if (I know this is a shocker) the goal isn't to kill the target?

Bestow Curse isn't too terrible of a spell for non-warlocks, because the WIS-save-or-no-action bit can be good in some situations, using a lower level spell slot for a solid control effect against someone traditionally weak to WIS saves. That said, I'd say its inferior to Hold Person, Banish, or any other number of Save or Suck effects, so those would be a better option to reach for. I'd only go for Bestow Curse if those other options weren't viable. Its a niche effect.

Keep in mind, and I can't stress this enough, no concentration control spell. Unlike hold monster, it can affect undead and there are no repeat saves to break the spell every turn. Once a person gets it into that 5th level slot it's better than hold or banish because concentration is still available. You don't have to drop your spirit guardians or bless to cast bestow curse, for example, like I would have to for banishment and while the target is gone what am I left to work with on remaining opponents?. Bestow curse bypasses one of the biggest restrictions 5e has on spellcasters.