Hex or grid?

[KarinsDad]

Points.

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

Basically, instead of occupying a 5 foot square. You occupy a point. Your reach is the next (5 foot) point over, or 2 points for 10 foot reach. You can travel point to point like you would via 5 foot squares (2 for each other diagonal). It also has the fidelity to make people NOT OCCUPY a whole 5 foot square but instead THREATEN a 5 foot reach.

Thoughts?

Interesting concept.

I think the reason we don't use something like this is because of visual issues. With a confined square or hex, everyone at the table has an angle where they can see if the miniature has been moved into "grid x". With points, it's difficult to see the point under the miniature, so it's a bit more difficult to tell if the miniature was moved correctly or not since the miniature obscures the location. People have to extrapolate location based on the other points on the board. It's also a bit harder to visualize whether a miniature is flanking or diagonal, etc. because there is no "box" to put the miniature into. If the miniature is offset in a grid, the lines are basically outside the miniature and so it's easier to tell that the miniature is poorly placed. Not that this would be a problem often, but I could see it as an issue.

It's kind of like the lines on the road. When the lines are really visible, cars (usually) tend to stay in their lanes. When lines are missing or harder to see, people tend to veer over them without knowing it. I could see the same thing happening with a point grid system, especially when there are 5 miniatures all next to each other.


Someone mentioned offset points. This is what they would look like:

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

    .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

    .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

    .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

.      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

    .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .      .

 

[am181d]

Does anybody make a string that alternates colors every inch? I know you could use a tape measure, but a colorful string seems more flavorful*.

*Don't eat the string.

 

[Mercule]

Grid or tape measure. Hexes are utterly worthless unless your PCs walk a straight line north/south, but stagger like drunken umber hulks when they turn east/west -- that's for more immersion breaking and confusing than the occasional long diagonal step.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Both.

That way it satisfies every one and no one!

 

[BobTheNob]

As soon as you put it on a map, my immersion is broken. Hex or squares doesnt fix that for me either way.

I am willing to use maps if required, but I would so prefer WOTC to come up with an abstract method or battlefield representation instead.

 

[hanez]

As soon as you put it on a map, my immersion is broken. Hex or squares doesnt fix that for me either way.

I am willing to use maps if required, but I would so prefer WOTC to come up with an abstract method or battlefield representation instead.

When 3e came out, my group started dabbling with minis and grids.

When 4e came out, I bought a projector, mounted it on my ceiling pointing down on my table and every encounter had great photoshopped tiles.

Then came the great 4e plague that for some inexplicable reason caused D&D to stop being fun.

We just started playing again (AD&D), with no maps, no minis, no tiles. Funny trying to describe things underneath a projector that is off. But we are having much more fun.

I may turn the projector on again soon, but its been a great experience playing with just our imaginations. You always hear about how easy new systems are for the DM. But for me the tiles and the minis started making it harder. Combat was drawn out, rounds were sloow, and it became a more tactile rule based game. All the tactics gave the players a reason to question my DMing, every, single round. I was spending soo much time on what my monsters should be doing, what there stats should be, I had much less time to dedicate on making an engaging campaign. Now Im back to just doing things on the fly, killing monsters before the battle becomes boring, weaving interesting plots for each character, and my players are loving it.

So my answer right now is neither, at least for combat. The more you focus on combat in my experience the less interesting the game becomes.

 

[BobTheNob]

When 3e came out, my group started dabbling with minis and grids.

When 4e came out, I bought a projector, mounted it on my ceiling pointing down on my table and every encounter had great photoshopped tiles.

Then came the great 4e plague that for some inexplicable reason caused D&D to stop being fun.

We just started playing again (AD&D), with no maps, no minis, no tiles. Funny trying to describe things underneath a projector that is off. But we are having much more fun.

I may turn the projector on again soon, but its been a great experience playing with just our imaginations. You always hear about how easy new systems are for the DM. But for me the tiles and the minis started making it harder. Combat was drawn out, rounds were sloow, and it became a more tactile rule based game. Now Im back to just doing things on the fly, killing monsters before the battle becomes boring and my players are loving it.

So my answer right now is neither, at least for combat

OMG OMG OMG OMG.

That is EXACTLY what happened to us. Even to the "somewhere along the way it stopped being fun", that is what happened to me as well. For all that the precision that the 4e battlegrid gave us, it just wasnt the same.

Even if others DID have fun with battlegrid, its good to know that Im not alone in wanting something else.

 

[Stormonu]

If it's Battletech,

HEXES

If it's D&D,

GRID if it's constructed, HEXES if it's natural.

 

[KarinsDad]

Grid or tape measure. Hexes are utterly worthless unless your PCs walk a straight line north/south, but stagger like drunken umber hulks when they turn east/west -- that's for more immersion breaking and confusing than the occasional long diagonal step.

Meh. It's only the final east west hex that matters. The PC walks down the east west hex line (i.e. the straight line between the hexes) and immersion isn't broken.

All grids have issues. None of them allow for NNE travel for example.

The first problem I have with squares is that if a PC is flanked east west or north south, he cannot shift out of flank and be 10 feet away from both foes. If he is flanked diagonally, he can. So, different types of flank have differing amounts of restrictiveness.

The second problem I have with (4E, not 3E) squares is the 40% increase in speed when moving diagonally. It's a hack and more bothersome than the drunken sailor issue you mentioned. Suddenly, my slow Fighter is FAST. Why bother to have Opportunity Attacks in the game system if everyone can just easily saunter around any foe (or worse yet, any defender)? Meh.

Rules anomalies like these bother me a whole heck of a lot more than a slight wobble moving the miniature (which can be avoided anyway).


And of course, hex Fireballs look a lot more like balls than square Fireballs.

 

[Ratskinner]

Do you prefer hexes or grid for combat?

No.
I prefer "Free" or "Zone" combat. (FATE calls them "Zones", Old School Hack calls them "Arenas".)

What about outdoors maps and city maps?

Freeform.

And what about dungeon maps?

There, I think that grids/hexes help a bit. Let's you get a quick eyeball on distances. However, IME, the best dungeons always had isometric maps.

It's a small question but I think that it will have a big impact on the next edition.

I agree, but I hope the designers realize that the earlier, simpler, faster editions of the game played fine without a grid of any sort during combat. Though I'm perfectly fine with it being a popular module.