D&D 5E Hex Shenanigans

[Arial Black]

Let me put it another way. If I say that's fine but the fey queen expects you to drop concentration on the hex once the sacrifice is made (because it is for the sacrifice), is that still good by you? If it is, then we don't have an issue, you do your thing! I don't even have an issue with you taking a short rest to recover the slot. I'll even probably throw in a bit of extra RP XP.

If on the other hand you hem and haw (or worse, outright argue) about how that's not how you envisioned it working, then as I see it you were trying to pull one over on the DM using RP to cover your true intentions. Because if it was done for a cool, evocative RP moment, it shouldn't matter whether you get to maintain concentration after it is done. That only matters if you are trying to game the system and squeak out a tiny extra advantage that I'd let you have for free if you'd just talked to me about it instead of trying to pull a fast one.

I never bother trying to make up a stupid story as to why I'm acting rationally.

I hex whatever creature is about to be breakfast, not as some made-up ritual but because a.) I need to eat today, b.) because I want to cast both hex and aid, then rest to recover those slots before adventuring, and c.) because this one action serves both purposes.

Mage armour lasts 8 hours. If my multiclass warlock casts mage armour and then rests, is this an 'exploit'? The kind of exploit where the universe itself punishes me by altering its own laws just to vex me?

A wizard casts mage armour as the party set out. Wait, he's not wasting his first action in combat to cast it? This is exploiting how the spell works! Gaming the system! As soon as he casts it his deity strips him of the power to cast spells and a [collective noun] of tarrasques attacks with surprise!

 

[Arial Black]

Not a lot. Not a lot.

But how many DM enforce the Ethos of a god onto the player playing a cleric or a paladin?
The answer is: "Not a lot". Again...

The warlock is not a very popular class in my games just because of that. I do insist on character creation that the Warlock writes exactly what he wanted from his patron (usually power) and I write the contract, terms, duration and whether or not the contract is renewable and on which conditions (if any). I once had a warlock which had a 10 year terms for his contract and I said: "Ok, 3 years passe between the end of your adventure and the beginning of the next one". The warlock was not happy about it. Then I had a warlock suffer a total loss of power because he hadn't respected his contract, the player complained that her character was not a cleric. I said, worse, you bargained with a power that does not even care one iota about you, your race and your goals. She (the Winter Queen) cares only about herself and her feys. (She had harmed a fey in self defense but it was written in her contract that she would never harm a fey under any conditions. Not even to save her life...).

So yep, not a lot. And if you're the kind of DM that does, the class loses a lot of its appeal.

Really? The warlock is not a very popular class in your games? I wonder why?

Helldritch: Okay guys, what classes are you all playing for my upcoming campaign entitled, 'The Totally Fair Campaign'?
Player 1: Cleric.
Helldritch: Cool! Every party needs one, am I right?
Player 2: Fighter.
Helldritch: Always need meat shields!
Player 3: Rogue, but I'm not, repeat not going to steal stuff from my own party!
Helldritch: Controversial, but I'll allow it.
Player 4: Er...warlock...?
Helldritch: Oh, trying to cheat are we? Right, here's a contract that your character has to obey or get eaten by Santa, effectively taking control of your character away from you!
Player 4: Okay, okay, I'll play a paladin instead!
Helldritch: No problem!

 

[Fanaelialae]

I never bother trying to make up a stupid story as to why I'm acting rationally.

I hex whatever creature is about to be breakfast, not as some made-up ritual but because a.) I need to eat today, b.) because I want to cast both hex and aid, then rest to recover those slots before adventuring, and c.) because this one action serves both purposes.

Mage armour lasts 8 hours. If my multiclass warlock casts mage armour and then rests, is this an 'exploit'? The kind of exploit where the universe itself punishes me by altering its own laws just to vex me?

A wizard casts mage armour as the party set out. Wait, he's not wasting his first action in combat to cast it? This is exploiting how the spell works! Gaming the system! As soon as he casts it his deity strips him of the power to cast spells and a [collective noun] of tarrasques attacks with surprise!

Pre casting mage armor is not gaming the system. Straw man arguments can sometimes be illustrative. This one is simply nonsensical.

Your character is not being rational by doing the hex chicken. They're being an optimized caricature.

I frankly don't see that as something a realistic person would do. It would be as if you took a chicken and used it for shooting practice (because you need to eat). Then spent an hour cleaning and maintaining your firearm because you'd fired it (short rest). And then walked around the rest of the day with your gun drawn (concentration). All on the off chance that you might need to use your gun that day. And you do this every day.

It's absurd. You're treating the game world like you would an MMORPG or other CRPG. Rather than a TTRPG where there are other people at the table with you trying to actually immerse themselves in the game.

Pretty sure the soldiers in the Vietnam War weren't that on edge all the time, but sure, it's justified because your background states that your character suffers from ultra-super-paranoia or something, right? Sure.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

Really? The warlock is not a very popular class in your games? I wonder why?

Helldritch: Okay guys, what classes are you all playing for my upcoming campaign entitled, 'The Totally Fair Campaign'?
Player 1: Cleric.
Helldritch: Cool! Every party needs one, am I right?
Player 2: Fighter.
Helldritch: Always need meat shields!
Player 3: Rogue, but I'm not, repeat not going to steal stuff from my own party!
Helldritch: Controversial, but I'll allow it.
Player 4: Er...warlock...?
Helldritch: Oh, trying to cheat are we? Right, here's a contract that your character has to obey or get eaten by Santa, effectively taking control of your character away from you!
Player 4: Okay, okay, I'll play a paladin instead!
Helldritch: No problem!

I mean, how often have you seen people being primarily a warlock and not just going two levels in for munchkinning?

 

[Arial Black]

I am playing/DMing with these principles.
1) Everyone must shine.
2) Background and personal history matter. If not why make them?
3) All rolls are on the open. Mine and the players'.
4) RP is important. Alignment is important. Ethos is important.
5) Everyone must have fun. Bad things can happen. But in the end, we want to have fun. (and not just the girls!)
6) Respect at the table is of utmost importance.
7) The DM can be wrong. So can the players. That is why #6 is there. So let's talk about it instead.
8) No drugs and only a moderate amount of beers will be tolerated. A game is not a place to get high or drunk.
and finally,
9) All modifications to the game must be approved by the majority of all players. Both groups.

I DM/play with these principles:-
1) The DM sets the character creation parameters, and designs and plays the NPCs.
2) The player designs their own PC according to the parameters, and plays them however they want.
3) The universe obeys its own laws. NPCs react realistically.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

I DM/play with these principles:-
1) The DM sets the character creation parameters, and designs and plays the NPCs.
2) The player designs their own PC according to the parameters, and plays them however they want.
3) The universe obeys its own laws. NPCs react realistically.

Do those parameters include "using the class descriptions in the PHB and not just treating classes as just collections of abilities"?

 

[Arial Black]

I'll try to make it fun and I don't throw "gotchas" at players but the bill will come due some day. Maybe with installments.

That statement contradicts itself. An unexpected bill IS a 'gotcha'!

The costs of playing a warlock are that they gain the abilities of a warlock instead of the abilities they would have gained if they chose another class. That's it.

In my printing of the 5e PHB there is nothing that reads like,"Each time the warlock casts a spell it doesn't work as written if the Patron thinks you might be using the spell to your own advantage".

 

[Oofta]

I mean, how often have you seen people being primarily a warlock and not just going two levels in for munchkinning?

We've been debating a house rule that once you take a single level of warlock you've committed to it. From then on out you must be a warlock.

It's the only multi-class option I've seen in my home games other than my own fighter/rogue.

Yeah, I can hear the cries of "horrible DM how dare you limit my freedom" but I don't care. People aren't taking the levels because they want to be a warlock, they're taking the levels as a cheap power boost to their "real" spell casting class.

 

[FlyingChihuahua]

We've been debating a house rule that once you take a single level of warlock you've committed to it. From then on out you must be a warlock.

It's the only multi-class option I've seen in my home games other than my own fighter/rogue.

Yeah, I can hear the cries of "horrible DM how dare you limit my freedom" but I don't care. People aren't taking the levels because they want to be a warlock, they're taking the levels as a cheap power boost to their "real" spell casting class.

It's almost like there are consequences to your actions or something...

 

[Oofta]

That statement contradicts itself. An unexpected bill IS a 'gotcha'!

The costs of playing a warlock are that they gain the abilities of a warlock instead of the abilities they would have gained if they chose another class. That's it.

In my printing of the 5e PHB there is nothing that reads like,"Each time the warlock casts a spell it doesn't work as written if the Patron thinks you might be using the spell to your own advantage".

What unexpected bill? I mention it in my campaign intro, that if you play a warlock there will be a cost and go into some explanation of what patrons are available.

As another example if you choose the noble background, the family may call upon your services as well.

It's called having a living campaign world. One where your choices matter and don't exist in a pre-scripted vacuum.