Hey Morrus, when do we get The Elements of Magic?

Ummm... a massive d'oh! is required on my part. I use Hastur on most all of the sites that require login and since I auto-login on ENWorld, I'd forgotten that here alone I use Asathas (a former character of mine). That might just explain why I'm not using Hastur...

What can I say... It's Wednesday, I'm at work, and I'm just not entirely paying attention.
 

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I'll add my two coppers to Asathas' review. I have not had time to fullly read, absorb, reread, and analyze the work to do a full review. I have all of the Natural 20 stuff anyway, so a freebie is not that much incentive.

About the cleric (and to a lesser extent other classes). I agree the cleric as it is defined in the core books gets shafted with the addition of EoM, but that does not bother me that much. I am now working on a new 'cleric' class to replace the old one that is better integrated with this material. My main problem with the old cleric is that there was no distinction between the church cleric, with his religious power and influence, and the adventurer of faith. I think Elements of Magic gives me a foundation to change all that. Now, I can have an expert class holy man, a powerful religious person with non-secular power, turning ability, some healing etc, and an adventuring holy man. I guess what I am saying is that Elements of Magic will enable me to pull apart the powers of the old cleric class and reassemble them as skills, feats, and basic class powers. I had even thought of just getting rid of the cleric, adding a bonus for spell lists based on diety domains, and using the extra turning feat as the only way turning can be gained.

I can definitely see RangerWickett's point above about this being a slimmed-down version of what they REALLY wanted to put into it. It is obvious that there is so much more that can be done to fully flesh this out. I am waiting to see what other people come up with to expand this one.

As far as the spell lists go... WOW! I am not at all turned off by the generic names. I actuallly like them. I always found it funny that spellcasters all used the same name for spells, even those that had names of people that never existed on their own world. This naming makes it easy for a spell user to name a spell. Nobody wants to say 'I cast Evoke Fire 3'. My players will start naming their spells now. This is only a good thing. I really like the flexibility that the lists now give and I think that fleshing out the other spell using classes will be much easier with the lists.

In summary, I don't expect to drop this down into my campaign and have no ill affects on other aspects. If I ever found that kind of supplement, I might faint. The thing about Elements of Magic is that the changes I see making to the rest of my campaign in order to use it strengthen the entire campaign. I can use this as a springboard to develop better alternatives classes, powers, etc.

And my friends... That's what it is all about!

Mike
 


Asathas, I'm posting this on the boards too, on the thread in the publishers' forum. I'm just trying to address the issues you brought up in your review.

Just thought I'd point out a few things you might have missed, primarily the turning undead. We briefly considered including a "D&D power to Elements spell-list" conversion list, but really Turn Undead was the only ability that we thought people might not get right away. You can turn undead by taking Compel Undead, and using it as a repulsion effect, and it will create a very similar effect (only without having to roll for number of hit dice turned; instead, the undead gets a saving throw).

And, of course, you can repel all kinds of things this way. I think I personally would love to use it to keep away bugs. :)

You could make a cleric by multiclassing as a Mage/Fighter, taking Armored Casting as your chosen boon at 1st level, and using your bonus fighter feats for Toughness to balance out the slightly lower hp from the mage class.

As for the variant bards, they do use Spellsong, as presented at the beginning of Chapter Six, which I think is pretty cool.

I think that's all I really needed to clarify. I'm really glad you like the book, and I hope you'll be willing to post some of the ways you use it on the boards in the future.
 

I understand your points but there's still a few problems...

Compel [Creature] does work for turning undead but makes it incompatible with the host of domain abilities, feats, prestige class abilities and so on that either broaden turning or use turning attempts to fuel some other ability. Compel's great and more flexible than just straight turning but I like having the ability to utilize other 3rd party material as well. Personally, I'll add turning to the list of Major Boons with the requirement of selecting a creature type to turn/rebuke.

As for Clerics in general... if it takes multi-classing, specific feats, and so on to replicate the cleric, then it doesn't really hit the target. All it would have taken is inclusion of an additional Mage subtype similar to the Green Mage which is an awesome druid replacement (although adding another boon similar to the animagus which either expands animagus or acts as a higher powered version to enact the wild shape ability would have been nice for futher compatability with other D20 supplements).

Bardic Music... yep, spellsong is cool and I love the flavor of it and I'll be using it for bardic magic. However, bardic music has a host of 3rd party and even WOTC add-on rules such as the instruments in Song and Silence, the additional abilities in Enchiridion of Mystic Music, and additional material in Book of Eldritch Magic II. I'll be adding it back in as a Moderate Boon most likely.

I guess what it comes down to is I think EoM is an great supplement that could have been awesome and absolutely a must-have for every gamer if it had maintained a bit more compatability with other D20 products. A guide (with examples) to importing existing spells into a spell list framework would have been awesome. Consider that people who buy a product that replaces the entire magic system probably buy other D20 supplements and would like them to be easily compatible with what they already have. Of course you can only do so much when you're replacing such a major system as how magic works but knocking off other systems such as domains, turning, and bardic music limits options rather than expanding them.

I'll shut up now because I think I'm beginning to ramble but please do keep us appraised of possible sequel products or web enhancements because I really do like what you guys built. And do keep in mind that it's just me an my opinion which may or may not match that of others.
 


Hands down. Large chunks of this book are going to get dropped into my upcoming Dark Ages Horror Game System. There are chunks here usable by everyone.
 




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