Hey Morrus, when do we get The Elements of Magic?

[Terath Ninir]

All comments are welcome! They will allow us to improve tEoM. It is going off in a new area that hasn't been done before and I admit that we haven't thought of all the implications yet.

Addendum to Morrus' comment:

The entire book is OGC with the exception of the cover, title and credits page, plus any company names.

Interior art is also not OGC. Art never is.

Response to Asathas:
The Green Mage: there was no need to put in a wild shape ability. The green mage has access to the Polymorph [Creature] lists, so it doesn't need a seperate polymorphing ability.

Bards: Umm. I thought they still had their bardic music ability. You'll have to talk to Ranger Wickett about that one. I'd just add it back in, myself.

Clerics: If you want a class that is specifically cleric, use the red mage. They use Life magic and many of the same spells that clerics use. You can't give a cleric spellcasting abilities equal to a full mage in this system, because then it would be a much more powerful class. Better armour, better hp, better weapons, all at no penalty -- it's not a good idea.

I didn't include turning undead because it's just not needed. You can make undead go away with Compel Undead. You can destroy them with Evoke Life. I know the ability has been around forever, but I don't think it needs to be kept around for nostalgia's sake.

I will have some comments on your original post in the Reviews section, since that will be around a lot longer than this thread.

Response to mikey6990:

In summary, I don't expect to drop this down into my campaign and have no ill affects on other aspects. If I ever found that kind of supplement, I might faint. The thing about Elements of Magic is that the changes I see making to the rest of my campaign in order to use it strengthen the entire campaign. I can use this as a springboard to develop better alternatives classes, powers, etc.

There's no way to make anything, even a WotC splatbook, 100% compatable with what someone already has in their campaign. We did our best to have this as compatable as possible, but it is a rather major change to the game. I'm glad it's giving you new ideas for what you want to do.

Thanks for all the comments, and keep 'em coming. Remember: it's not really a negative comment unless you're being openly insulting. Everything else is useful.

 

[Asathas]

Just so that you guys know that I think the book is incredible. The points I've raised are pretty nitpicky compared to the awesome amount of absolutely wonderful material you guys put in there.

And just so I've said it at least once (and will say so by adding a supplement to my review if you think it's appropriate), the only real reason I gave it 4 out of 5 stars and not 5 out of 5 is because it's not a book everybody can just plug in to their campaign. And to be honest, there aren't many of those out there. To me, a 5 out of 5 means that it should be owned and used by basically everyone and be as ubiquitous as the Player's Handbook and the DMG.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Just so that you guys know that I think the book is incredible. The points I've raised are pretty nitpicky compared to the awesome amount of absolutely wonderful material you guys put in there.

No worries. I don't expect everyone to love everything in the book. You raised some good points and, even if we don't agree on them, it certainly gives us something to think about. I'm glad you liked it overall.

 

[La Bete]

gotta add my 5c* - got it yesterday, have some quiblbles with it, but overall a great book! Normally Im not a big fan of dnd spell point systems, but the spell point + Spell list (reminicent of RM) system looks very workable.

As for the grumbles about the cleric, (which are somewhat valid), Im turning that around, and am looking to try to make 2e-style speciality priests out of it... I think its quite workable.

Also, as for the lack of compatibility with other books, well, to be honest Im not surprised - it is a major change. However a lot of other stuff can be shoehorned into this system - for example feats that are based off turn undead, could require the caster to have compel undead, an then require 1 or more MP to get the effects of the feat - similar to expending a turn undead slot.

*it would be 2c, but we dont have them anymore.

 

[gariig]

Can this be dropped into an existing campaign setting as an alternative spell system? If you could, would it be unbalancing to the PHB classes(sounds like the cleric is unbalancing compared to EoM). I'm so tempted to pick this up "just to have"...must feed RPG book habbit

Gariig

It helps if you read someone's review at RPGNow.com...I just read it and realized it would fit in...But your thoughts are still welcome of course RangerWickett and Cyberzombie

 

[Asathas]

Just my opinion here but I think it could be worked into an existing campaign but the higher level the characters, the more work it'll be. It really depends on whether you're expecting the players to begin using the system or just NPC's.

As for the cleric issue... it's not a balance problem in the slightest. There are several ways in EoM to build an equivalent of the PH Cleric, it's just not quite as cut and dried as I personally would like. Please don't take my comments as meaning there's a balance problem though... that's one thing I'll state unequivocably, the balance in EoM looks to be about perfect.

The only thing I was bringing up as a potential flaw (and I say potential because it's up to the individual DM/Player) was that some of the class abilities that are sometimes referenced by other 3rd party materials had been converted to spell lists making it a bit harder to integrate the two supplements.

Even if you didn't implement the classes in EoM, the spell lists are still about invaluable as references for creating new spells for your campaign.

 

[Tuerny]

I am only partially through the EoM but already I am fairly impressed. It looks pretty good.

My only concern so far is the Green Mage vs. the Red/Grey Mage.

The Green Mage seems rather more powerful with a better spell advancement, equivalant attack bonus advancement, and more skill points.

How do you see them as being balanced considering these things? Am I missing something?

 

[Terath Ninir]

La Bete: The turning-powered feats from Defenders of the Faith could easily be converted so that they are powered by magic points instead. I leave that as an exercise for the reader, however, since they aren't OGL and I'll never make an "official" version for them.

gariig: The EoM rules should work just fine alongside standard spellcasters, including the cleric. Asathas' question involved creating a cleric-equivalent class using the EoM rules.

Asathas: Converting existing high-level characters to use these rules would be difficult; probably as difficult as converting 2e characters to 3e was. You can do it, but you'd have to look at your character and the rules for a while.

Tuerny: the grey and red mage have access to better combat spell lists than the green mage. Most of the green mage's spells are Enchantments -- which means that they fail completely on a successful save, while most of the grey and red mage's spells still do half damage.

They also have a better selection of weaponry and armour. And the green mage's weapon and armour lists are enforced, too. Overall, the grey and red mages have better saves, since all of them are "average". One change that may need to be made is increasing their hit dice to a d8 -- my editors and I couldn't decide on that point.

Thanks for all your questions and comments! I welcome them, especially any possible problems. No matter how many people look over a book, something always sneaks through the editing process.

 

[Jarval]

Are there any plans for a print version of EoM?

 

[Terath Ninir]

Are there any plans for a print version of EoM?

Assuming sales justify a print copy, yes. It's selling well now so, so far, it's looking good for a print copy.