Hey Old One: After Action Report?

[Fenris]

I'm not really attacking the 3.x/GT skill system, just trying to point out why that system doesn't really work if you are looking for a 'skills-based' game rather than a 'class-based' one.

In any event, I'd just make skills cost 1pt per rank regardless, and keep the cap. This would let someone who specialized in a skill (ie took it as a class skill) count on being better than someone who didn't, but still give the amateur a chance to do reasonably well. Hopefully, players would start shifting points to the subsidiary skills rather than just maxing out class skills every level, and that would help the DM keep the 'DC creep' in check.

I have to apologize Old One, I did indeed hijack this thread. But i think this is at least productive (and at least you are inviting others to the hijack .

But I think Rodrigo may have a good solution to this problem, at leats for me. As Old One pointed out, the Core skills represents those skills that one is really very good at, your bread and butter. The fact you can pick most of them is terrific. But there are times you want and or need more for a concept. I think Rodrigo's idea has merit because you will still only be really really good at your core skills, but non-core have a shot at being decent supporting skills. Especially when you consider synergy bonuses. Most people want only a smattering of other skills really and keeping them at 1 point allows them to do so. But leaving the cross-class cap on them means they will not outshine someone who does it for a living, nor will they abandon their core skills. I will need to thinkon this but it might be worthwhile.

Fenris

 

[sinmissing]

Another option is to allow skills gained form Occupation selection to have no level cap. This will ensure that the the character who chooses a skill as their class skill has the chance at least to reign supreme.

 

[sinmissing]

I have to apologize Old One, I did indeed hijack this thread.

I don't think you have to apologize, as Old One has encouraged me to comment as well.

But i think this is at least productive (and at least you are inviting others to the hijack .

Very.

I think; as can be concluded from my previous post; that cross-class penalties are incredibly heavy because (a) 2 pts. per rank (b) maximum rank is 1/2 a class skill level and (c) overall limited pool of skill points. These restrictions would be fine in a archtype driven game, where the Rogue better be the skill monkey, and the Fighter's combat process is offset by forcing them to be kinda dim.

You might argue that GT is still a archetypical driven game, but I would not agree, at least not the same way D&D is. Ever since d20 Modern appeared in Polyhedron, I have thought that the model worked well to describe the Smart Fighter, and the Strong Rogue, where the character's overall problem solving strategy (Fast vs. Charismatic) was the important archtype being described, and not their profession (Fighter vs. Rogue), per se.

I also do not like the INT bonus to skill point total, which you won't need, if you drop the cross-class penalty.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I also do not like the INT bonus to skill point total, which you won't need, if you drop the cross-class penalty.

I wouldn't drop it. It keeps INT from being a dump stat. There aren't that many Int-based skills to make it worth putting in a lot of points into that stat.

 

[sinmissing]

INT a dump stat? Never! How ever are you to cast spells?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I can't imagine Int being a dump stat. I think I've only drawn up two NPCs with wimpy Int, and never seen (or played) a player character with low Int.

 

[Hammerhead]

Yeah, probably b/c your players like to have skills. By hitting INT with the nerf stick, you'll see a lot more 8-10 INT characters.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

One thing I have toyed around with is actually eschew the "Background Skill List" if the players are will to write up a reasonable background...that way they could simply choose 9-10 skills (with a requirement of one craft, one profession and one knowledge skill). As long as their background supported it, I would allow it as a DM.

I regularly do this myself.

In regards to your other comments, my brain is too addled wrt Spellcasting at the moment to offer any cogent thought, though I am paying attention to what other folks have to say. The reason for my addling, of course, is that I am compiling a lot of thoughts on Spellcasting to give it a fuller treatment in at a later time. (Most recently I've been studying GR's Psychic's Handbook and I am certain I can use that model for spellcasting as well.)

Wulf

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

(Most recently I've been studying GR's Psychic's Handbook and I am certain I can use that model for spellcasting as well.)

I've been working with that as well, actually. I did my own take on the magic systems from the old Alternity game using Psychic's Handbook as a base not too long ago. I put together a PDF of Demonology that I posted up for comment in my Dark*Matter StoryHour.

It works very very well, IMHO. I've also used it, changed up some, as a model for spellcasting for my Pulp/Supers game (though I based THAT casting system, and its spells, off of CoC d20).

--fje

 

[sinmissing]

Been thinking of skill based magic for a long time. . . . My thoughts:

If magic is to be skill driven, I'd see every school as a separate skill. Healing spells; those with healing as a descriptor; should be a new school which is the antithesis of necromancy, ie. Vitamancy. (Pardon my Latin if this is incorrect conjugation) Then, each school is talent-accessible. 9 talents for 9 schools of magic. Only the truly dedicated spellcaster; one that mirrors D&D's wizard or cleric; could possibly master all the spells. The feat gives access to the school; possibly allowing a research check to the player; once per level, equal to 15 + Spell Level to create/research a new spell on their own.

EDIT: Since Energy Evocation spells are so powerful, each energy could be associated with its own talent, ie. Evocation: Acid, Cold, Flame, Lightning, and Sonic, and if you are loathe to make a new school just for healing spells, make Healing a sub-talent of Conjuration.

This forces the spellcaster to sink both talents (as is already the case in GT) and skill points to master any significant spell casting. I think the Attribute drain is really elegant as is, and I see few options to modifiy it. The strain rating of GR's PH makes the Smart/Tough Psychic the most powerful choice. Strain is as elegant as Ability Damage, but far more exploitable than Wulf's system - Its a hard choice.

One option that comes to mind is that your drain (Attributes) "resistance" is equal to your School rank /5. So one with 10 ranks of say, Evocation, has a drain resistance of 2 when casting evocation spells only. This also serves to give certain spellcasters a particular flavor - the highly trained illusionist being poor at or unwilling to cast enchantment/charm spells because of their incredible strain on his STR or CON.

Making spell casting Skill Rank based has the added benefit of allowing the caster to possibly set the "caster level" or "power level" of the spell when cast. While it is simple enough that all 1st level magic spells have a caster level of 1, it seems to be a little lacking for my taste. Being able to cast a long duration detect magic, or a magic missile of 9th level efficacy should be possible; but strenuous.

I'd also consider those spells with "Divine", such as Divine Aid, Augury, Symmon Planar Ally, to be in another school; but I don't have a suitable name on hand.

(On a completely seperate note, I found that the word Charisma, per www.dictionary.com, means divine favor. I'm not sure why that is important, but it is so interesting to me that I had to post it.)

PS - Heap? Want to post a link to this document of yours? I'd love to see it.