Hide in plain sight question.

[Wobber]

One of my players took a couple of levels of shadowdancer and aquired that 'Hide in plain sight' ability, which I began to loathe after a few sessions. His character has a very high Hide bonus, so he constantly uses that ability to attack and hide on the same round, even that -20 penalty (if I got the rules correctly) doesn't bother him much. Also he can do it whenever he wants, since there are always shadows around, even that of a leaf or twig of some sort quilifies.

Am I getting this right? Seems unbalanced, I suggested it to work when the character is fully inside the shadows, but the players disagrees.

 

[Raven Crowking]

When you are DMing, the ability works the way you say it works.

RC

 

[Machiavelli]

Hide In Plain Sight is one of those abilities that plays heavily upon the environment. You, the DM, have complete control over the environment, by default. Remind him that you can take the party to a plane where his precious ability will NEVER function, if that's what it takes to shut him up.

The situation shouldn't degrade that far, however. Skill checks are ALWAYS subject to the DM's discretion for applying circumstantial modifiers. I would say that hiding in the shadow of a twig qualifies for a hefty circumstantial modifier, wouldn't you? If you'd like concrete rules, make it a -4 penalty for hiding in a shadow of 1 size category smaller than the creature making the check. -16 for a difference of 2, -36 for a difference of 3, and -100 for a difference of 4 size categories (such as the Medium creature hiding in the Fine twig's shadow). The formula I used was -4*(d)^2, such that d=difference in size.

 

[Wobber]

I would say that hiding in the shadow of a twig qualifies for a hefty circumstantial modifier

But the descriptions says that it can be used as long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow. It doesn't say that the shadowdancer has to hide in the shadow (which is the fact that annoyed me in the first place). :\

 

[hong]

I treat it as being able to hide essentially any time you want. The exception would be if you're in the middle of a glitterdust spell or something similar, where the air is literally glowing around you. Note that hiding is still a move action, so you can't hide and get a full attack in the same round. The best you could do is hide and single-shot, or hide and move.

 

[mikebr99]

One of my players took a couple of levels of shadowdancer and aquired that 'Hide in plain sight' ability, which I began to loathe after a few sessions. His character has a very high Hide bonus, so he constantly uses that ability to attack and hide on the same round, even that -20 penalty (if I got the rules correctly) doesn't bother him much. Also he can do it whenever he wants, since there are always shadows around, even that of a leaf or twig of some sort quilifies.

Am I getting this right? Seems unbalanced, I suggested it to work when the character is fully inside the shadows, but the players disagrees.

Sounds like you are handling this right... hiding is at least a move action, or combined with one, so he is only getting one attack per round.

He does not need to be in the shadows... just within 10ft. of some. HiPS is a super natural ability... that is presumably powered by the plain of shadow (not spelled out anywhere), which exists with the actual shadows that are near the SD... the Su ability... presumably provides enough cover/concealment to let you hide while being observed and with nothing else to hide behind/in (not spelled out anywhere).

That's how I run it anyway... YMMV

Mike

 

[mvincent]

One of my players took a couple of levels of shadowdancer and aquired that 'Hide in plain sight' ability, which I began to loathe after a few sessions. His character has a very high Hide bonus, so he constantly uses that ability to attack and hide on the same round

Any attack that isn't aimed at him will instead be aimed at a different party member, so it likely isn't as powerful as you might think. It can also be countered with ready actions or area effects.

even that -20 penalty (if I got the rules correctly) doesn't bother him much.

Re-check the rules... I know this can be done with ranged attacks, but I'm not sure if that can be done with melee attacks.

From the rules:
"Sniping
If you’ve already successfully hidden at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack, then immediately hide again. You take a -20 penalty on your Hide check to conceal yourself after the shot. "

 

[frankthedm]

One of my players took a couple of levels of shadowdancer and aquired that 'Hide in plain sight' ability, which I began to loathe after a few sessions. His character has a very high Hide bonus, so he constantly uses that ability to attack and hide on the same round, even that -20 penalty (if I got the rules correctly) doesn't bother him much.

Am I getting this right? Seems unbalanced...

HIPS is a supernatural ability. That means using it is a standard action. It is a useful ability, but nowhere as game breaking as some picture it.

Hiding lets a rogue have the initative cycle break so the rogue can again catch foes flat footed. Otherewise flanking, blinking, invisability and other things that specificly take away the target's dex bonus, not hiding, is how rogues deal thier sneak attack.

Just like when Jason Voorhees uses it. He HIPS in the middle of combat, the victim, still claiming their dex and other active AC bonuses, looks around for a bit, unable to find him. Since things seem safe initiative ends.

Now Jason stops using HIPS, catches his victim flat footed in the new surprise round and WHACK!

The Ranger's HIPS is an extraordinary ability but is in a similar kettle of fish.

 

[mvincent]

HIPS is a supernatural ability. That means using it is a standard action.

I believe you are incorrect. HIPS is an Ex ability for a Ranger, and is used as part of using the hide skill (i.e. it does not require it's own separate action). In context, the Shadowdancer's HIPS ability appears to be similar (except it doesn't work in an AMF).

You would not require a Shadowdancer to use a standard action to activate his Darkvision (Su) ability, would you?

 

[frankthedm]

I believe you are incorrect. HIPS is an Ex ability for a Ranger, and is used as part of using the hide skill (i.e. it does not require it's own separate action). In context, the Shadowdancer's HIPS ability appears to be similar (except it doesn't work in an AMF).

Hiding is active, not reactive. The use of the skill would not let you HIPS, use of the Ability does, Thus I say it standard action and I point this out to those who are having problems with the ability. The shadowdancer's HIPS is supernatural. There are no exceptioons called out. The extraordinary ability entry is murkier, though that one is less of a problem since it is enviroment limited.

Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are standard actions unless otherwise noted.

You would not require a Shadowdancer to use a standard action to activate his Darkvision (Su) ability, would you?

The Day he first gets it, why not. It does not have a duration.