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'Hide in Plain Sight' question.

Bonedagger

First Post
I know that See Invisibility don't reveal hiding creatures but does this change since the Hide in plain sight is SU? It's not like there need to be something blocking the line of sight.
 
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kreynolds

First Post
Bonedagger said:
I know that See Invisibility don't reveal hiding creatures but does this change since the Hide in plain sight is SU?

Nope. Hide In Plain Sight is a supernatural ability, yes, but it does not confer invisibility. It simply represents your ability to duck out of sight even if you are being observed.
 

Shayuri

First Post
Kreynolds is quite correct, but just to remove all shred of ambiguity: No, See Invisible will not reveal a character who is using the Hide skill. Neither, in fact, will True Sight.

Hide in Plain Sight works identically to a normal Hide, save that it can be done under observation. Within an antimagic field, a shadowdancer (for example) could not use Hide in Plain Sight, but COULD still Hide... He'd just have to misdirect or get out of view for a moment, same as normal skill use.
 


Skaros

First Post
So, does that mean that you have to have some sort of concealment to hide behind or within?

So, all those threads on whether or not a shadowdancer can spring attack in, and the hide using a partial action from haste (or whatever it was) were moot anyway in almost all circumstances?

-Skaros
 

WizarDru

Adventurer
Skaros said:
So, does that mean that you have to have some sort of concealment to hide behind or within?

So, all those threads on whether or not a shadowdancer can spring attack in, and the hide using a partial action from haste (or whatever it was) were moot anyway in almost all circumstances?

-Skaros

Well, herein lies the point of contention for some folks. All a shadowdancer needs is a shadow other than their own. Folks like me consider that to mean a shadow of suitable proportions, such as a shadowy corner of the room, for example. Others hold that any shadow, regardless of dimension, is valid (which fails a serious verisimilitude check for me).

All True Seeing and See Invisible do are counter magic forms of concealment. HiPS is a supernatural ability that allows you to hide in shadows, enhancing your existing ability to hide. Personally, I see this as an almost chameleon-like ability to become one with the shadow, thus becoming more difficult to see. In essence, the shadow itself becomes the concealment, hence the term 'Hide in Plain Sight'.

Some DMs may not agree with that, which I could understand, and might rule differently. But on a strict rules basis, that's how it should work.
 

Shard O'Glase

First Post
Well you need a shadow, and yes the shadow should be of some size.(IMO) but they mention not your own shadow, and that you don't actually have to hide in the shadow and just be 10' from it.(hey its magic) So nothing is stopping you from hiding in your opponents shadow, just not your own shadow.
 

Bonedagger

First Post
WizarDru said:
All True Seeing and See Invisible do are counter magic forms of concealment. HiPS is a supernatural ability that allows you to hide in shadows, enhancing your existing ability to hide.

Actually SU means Magical. Just not spell-like. So a shadowdancer using HiPS is using magic to hide/conceal himself. The reason why you cannot be detected by See Inv. could be that you become shadow.


Shayuri:

True Seeing should be able to detect you (At least because it can detect magic).
 
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Dagger75

Epic Commoner
I always ruled True Seeing never saw the shadow dancer. Spot did on the other hand since it is a hide check. True Seeing will not see the rogue hiding behind the pillar but will see the invisible mage.

Hide in plain sight is actually kind of easy to defeat. Baasically if you can't be caught flat footed you are immune to the sneak attack the Shadow dancer will do. Farie Fire on the shadow dancer will stop him from hiding. Daylight will could get rid of those pesky shadows, or create more, depends how nice the DM is. The spell blindsight nullifies hide in plain sight also. The shadow dance in my old campaign used to hide all the time. He was basically a one trick pony. My RPGA character is a shadow dancer and everything in that darn game can't be caught flat footed so it basically rendered that ability useless.

I have actually found the ability MORE useful outside of cambat than in combat.
 

Shayuri

First Post
:: Actually SU means Magical. Just not spell-like. So a shadowdancer using HiPS is using magic to hide/conceal himself. The reason why you cannot be detected by See Inv. could be that you become shadow.

-- Actually, it's because a character who is hiding is not invisible.

:: True Seeing should be able to detect you (At least because it can detect magic).

-- While any given GM is of course invited to rule otherwise, the rules do not bear this interpretation out, as written.

HiPS is a Supernatural ability to hide when it would otherwise not be possible to...but you are still hiding. True Sight reveals all things as they truly are...and if you're truly hidden, you're still hidden. :)

Think of it this way. HiPS has an Instantaneous duration. You use magic during the moment you "vanish." After that, you're legitimately hidden from view, as per the usual use of the skill. In this sense, you might use a readied action to try to Dispel the HiPS as it happened (which should be possible), but once the shadowdancer is hidden...too late.

Also, since I noticed a quick comment about partial actions and such above... The FAQ is also quite clear in saying that Hide is used as part of a move action, and that HiPS is considered an adjunct to a normal use of Hide. Using HiPS does not require a separate action any more than using Hide alone does.
 

Bonedagger

First Post
Shayuri said:
HiPS is a Supernatural ability to hide when it would otherwise not be possible to...but you are still hiding. True Sight reveals all things as they truly are...and if you're truly hidden, you're still hidden. :)

Reading through the description of True Seeing I can see that it does not give the ability to detect magic. Always thought that. Oh well. My mistake. :)


[Edit]

:: Actually SU means Magical. Just not spell-like. So a shadowdancer using HiPS is using magic to hide/conceal himself. The reason why you cannot be detected by See Inv. could be that you become shadow.

-- Actually, it's because a character who is hiding is not invisible.

Well yes. But the logic was that in order to hide in something that is transparent you need to become transparent as well.
 
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