Hide skill and sneak attack?

[Gnome]

I'm wondering if a successful use of the hide skill could ever result in an opponent losing his DEX bonus to AC, thereby allowing a sneak attack. There are two possible scenerios that I can see for this:

Sniping: Under the hide skill, it talks about how one can shoot a ranged weapon from a hiding place, then rehide after the shot. If one is unaware of the presence of this attacker before the ranged attack, would the target lose his DEX bonus to AC?

Hiding while attacking: The hide skill also says that one can attack while hiding at a -20 penalty. If one is still hidden when the attack is made, wouldn't this effectively be the same as invisibility, thus allowing a sneak attack?

 

[Darkness]

Rules of the Game implies as much but the PHB is kinda vague on the point.

 

[Nail]

Tell me about it, Darkness.

 

[Darkness]

I think I'll just point the OP to places where the question might be answered and let him draw his own conclusion.

If you want to reconsider your previous interpretation, feel free. Either way, you are on your own AFAIC, Nail.

 

[azmodean]

Even if this is allowed, the rogue in question needs two things, concealment, and a clear view of his target.

For sniping it can be pretty resonable, but attacking in melee it would be dificult to consistently find a place to hide adjacent (or at least near enough for a reach weapon) to the target in a situation where you have a clear view.

The easiest way to do this would be with magic. You need a way to generate concealment and a way to be able to see through it. Some sort of fog or darkness plus a spell that lets you see though it would be great, how about a level of warlock and an extra invocation feat so you have darkness and devil's sight at will? Or alternately 3 levels of warlock would do it. Handy powers for a rogue to have, and it doesn't even slow down your bab progression that much

 

[Shuffle]

You need to be hidden first I would say. In melee you cen't really hide right beside someone AFTER you've hit them. For range the -20 on the hide check allows you to hide right after sniping.

Remember Feinting is what allows you to deny the targets dex bonus to AC, and SA him/her.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In order to hide from someone who stands right before you, you'll need to get conceilment (swift invisibility or the ninja's ghostwalk are good bets for that) or hide in plain sight.

Sniping is different, you shoot from farther away. They saw where the arrow came from, but you still have a chance to hide again.

 

[Gnome]

The scenerio I'm picturing is the rogue hides at the start of combat (assuming the party doesn't suprise the enemy group), then he uses his insanely high hide skill (this is a size fine creature) to remain hidden on his turn while moving full speed and attacking. Obviously after he hits he's no longer hidden.

The hide rules do allow one to re-hide even after being discovered with a successful bluff check to distract the viewer, and a place to hide nearby. With a high enough hide skill, it should be theorettically possible to energe from hiding, sneak attack, then rehide all in the same round (with spring attack and swallowing an AoO).

Anyway, it seems logical to me that if one is hidden up until the hit lands on an enemy, then the enemy has no way to react to it before hand without uncanny dodge or the like.

 

[Nail]

If you want to reconsider your previous interpretation, feel free. Either way, you are on your own AFAIC, Nail.

Yeah, yeah, yeah....I was wrong, dag-nabit. But only because the RotG article changed the rules on me! Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Still, the "if its hidden, then you lose your Dex mod to AC against its attacks" rule is probably a simpler rule than the original interpretation.

 

[apesamongus]

The scenerio I'm picturing is the rogue hides at the start of combat (assuming the party doesn't suprise the enemy group), then he uses his insanely high hide skill (this is a size fine creature) to remain hidden on his turn while moving full speed and attacking. Obviously after he hits he's no longer hidden.

Well, if he starts off the combat hidden, then he's obviously going to be attacking in the suprise round, so he's going to get the sneak off any way. But the "remain hidden on his turn while moving full speed and attacking" is going to be the hard part, because, as already stated, you need concealment. Even if you start off concealed, you're probably going to have to move out to reach the enemy, at which point, you aren't hiding any more.