Hiding fom Magic Missle

[Rkhet]

He wasn't going through walls, though.

It's actually a ring of Superior Invisibility (CA).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

He wasn't going through walls, though.

It's actually a ring of Superior Invisibility (CA).

Actually I think that LotR/Hobbit Dragons are not D&D Dragons.

 

[ARandomGod]

Quick question, one of my players has some insane bonuses to HIDE. My next BBEG has MM... Can the PC be targeted while hidden?

It he can't see him, he can't target him. (Note Mzsylver: Not even with a successful listen check. However some attacks don't require that you SEE the target. I'd like to nominate Glitterdust here.)

Other players have meantioned it. If you can even get CLOSE to where the guy's hiding, that spell will give a -40 to his hide checks for the duration (additional note, high enough skill points and you can sometimes hide against people with low spot even with that -40. I've done it.)

If you worry that giving the mage glitterdust is unfairly targeting the hide player, I counter that glitterdust is widely regarded as one of the best second level spells available. And after any mage had run across an unseeable opponent a few times he'll have it or at least a scroll of it at all times. Mages at mid level almost always have at least one way to counter invisibility... and some of those ways (but not all of them) will also counter the hide skill.

 

[MerakSpielman]

It's been said but bears repeating, have the BBEG have a familiar with Scent. Or guard animals.

Invisibility is common enough in the D&D world that intelligent opponents will have taken steps to thwart it as a common means of getting into their lairs. And what counters invisibility often (but not always, obviously) counters hide.

 

[Krelios]

Quick question, one of my players has some insane bonuses to HIDE. My next BBEG has MM... Can the PC be targeted while hidden?

If not any ideas for giving this player a scare, other that loading the BBEG with spot bonuses?

Thanks all!

I'll try to answer the OP's question, rather than debating strategies to "beat" your players. No, the PC cannot be targetted while hidden. Targetting a creature requires "line of sight" and "line of effect." In other words, he has to know where the creature he's targetting is. If the PC is hidden, he doesn't know.

The caveat? If he can detect the square the PC is in (via listen, scent, etc.) he still doesn't have enough information to "target" the PC.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Thunderfoot's villian creation matrix
Steps:
1) Race, class and level
2) if Magic User - create spell book/spell list
3) skills and feats
4) magic items
5) fortress/fortification/lair (for "final" battle)
6) cohorts
7) henchmen/hireling/flunkies and slave (for both allies and adversaries)
8) traps
9) tactics
10) ESCAPE PLAN - No bad bad guy should be defeated in a "final" battle unless you plan for it to be a penultimate clash. Reoccuring baddies is what makes, movies, TV series, novels, and comic books great. Someone who shows up (AGAIN!!) and messes things up just because.

I am in agreement - BBEG shouldn't get that way just because you need a flunkie villian - the MM (in all its incarnations) have tons of those, they are called monsters. BBEG - should be mean, cruel, vicious, despicable and memorable.

The first four aren't even set in stone - I once had my BBEG running a paradisical society (commune, agrarian moderately wealthy) with love, "good deeds" and a retirement plan in a nice home where they would be taken care of. (sucking them of their life blood) - but to the eyes of the community - the heroes were actually the villians, until light was shed on the true nature of mister bad guy vampire.
Ask the name of my current party's most heinous enemy and they will reply (either Donovan or his nickname "Maus"). He has thwarted his capture and escaped on several occassions and it has the party looking to "gun him down" at first sight. (They are even starting to pick feats based on the "one shot, one kill" theory.
The fact that they don't know that he's just a small potatoes thief/wererat that just happens to be in the wrong place at the right time just adds fuel to the fire. When they find out that the real enemy is actually.... well, let's just say it will be a Kodak moment.
I'm not devious because I'm a DM, I'm a DM because I'm devious.

 

[colinfit20]

Reg: Magic Missile and Hiding

It doesn't matter if there's nothing in a room for them to hide, the point you're forgetting is that if the BBEG doesn't KNOW he/she is there they can still make a Hide roll, remember not every creature has darkvision/tremor sense/whatever!
The point about Hide is that they can't move or they break "cover", when they move they need to make a Move Silently check and they're stuffed if that is nowhere near as good as their Hide skill.
Magic Missile needs the caster to be able to see their target, if they are for example a small creature say a Halfling and is currently stuck behind 5 humans well the caster would be better off targetting the ones in front in the case of my halfling sorceror there was a case where I had cast a detect magic on a opened tomb entrance corridor and noticed a magical trap, trying to discern said trap properties the group's paladin persuaded another character's Ranger (he was young and the Paladin's player was being obnoxious) to investigate now this set off the trap and before anyone barring another player's Monk could react the Paladin blocked the entrance way leaving the fight to the Ranger, the Monk and himself claiming he was protecting the rest of the party (rubbish he just likes playing zealot cleric's and paladin's amoungst other things). Anyway my point is that my character asked if being so small if she could fire a magic missile underneath the half dozen or so characters blocking the path ebtween me and the four skeletons that had been animated by the trap.
I was told no, which was harsh since being the only small szied character in the party should have made that easy, however even if your BBEG knew the room was empty unless they saw the character enter said room, they would have no reason to make a spot check upon entering unless the character breaks cover once they've entered.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

It doesn't matter if there's nothing in a room for them to hide, the point you're forgetting is that if the BBEG doesn't KNOW he/she is there they can still make a Hide roll, remember not every creature has darkvision/tremor sense/whatever!
The point about Hide is that they can't move or they break "cover", when they move they need to make a Move Silently check and they're stuffed if that is nowhere near as good as their Hide skill.

Actually, as per the PHB, you can't hide unless you have concealment or cover. So, if the room is bright enough to have nowhere that is considered concealment and no objects to give cover, no hide checks. As soon as you step into the room, everyone in the room can see you. Probably while coming down the hallway towards the room.

Even if the BBEG doesn't KNOW someone is there, he still has eyes and can look around. Some DMs might allow the PC to make hide checks in order to "sneak up on someone while their back is turned". But by the RAW, you can't do it.

Anyway my point is that my character asked if being so small if she could fire a magic missile underneath the half dozen or so characters blocking the path ebtween me and the four skeletons that had been animated by the trap.
I was told no, which was harsh since being the only small szied character in the party should have made that easy, however even if your BBEG knew the room was empty unless they saw the character enter said room, they would have no reason to make a spot check upon entering unless the character breaks cover once they've entered.

Then your DM uses some strange rules. As per the RAW, you can target someone through any number of creatures. If you can see ANY portion of the enemy, you can target them, even if it's only their shoes or one of their fingers. Thus, anything less than full cover doesn't stop you from targetting them. Also, you can't use creatures as cover to hide behind. Plus, Magic Missile always hits, no matter how many barriers are between you and the enemy.

Second, Spot isn't an active action. You get a spot check automatically as soon as their is something to see without any action on your part at all. This is because most creatures don't stare in one direction without ever moving their head. Even while just standing there talking to someone, you occasionally look around as you scratch an itch on your back or stretch or do any number of things. Therefore, creatures are assumed to see in 360 degrees, as it is possible that they COULD be looking in any direction at any one moment.

So, in this case, you enter the room, everyone in the room gets spot checks against you, and you can't hide since you have no cover or concealment. Which means everyone in the room makes it automatically.

If you were to come with a house rule for sneaking up on someone who isn't really watching for you and might be distracted enough not to look up and see you, I might suggest making the enemy make a spot roll of DC 5 or 10 to see you approach with your skill not helping all that much.