D&D 5E Hiding mid-battle; surprise or not surprise?

I would say that no, under that situation, it is not surprise. Furthermore, I wouldn’t let someone hide in the middle of combat, unless they can come up with a good way to break line-of-sight and find cover to hide behind. Stealth is not the same as invisibility.
 

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I would say that no, under that situation, it is not surprise. Furthermore, I wouldn’t let someone hide in the middle of combat, unless they can come up with a good way to break line-of-sight and find cover to hide behind. Stealth is not the same as invisibility.

I do let my players hide in combat at times, based on the circumstances but they have to work for it. Move around from cover to cover, throw down a smoke bomb and then climb to attack from an unexpected angle, something.

But surprise every round? No way.
 

I have allowed a chance at a player gaining surprise if they are entering an existing combat from surprise for the first time (ie. not participated in any previous rounds and Stealth beats all Passive Perceptions). I have had some assassins try to convince me that they automatically get their surprise attack if they beat the opponents Initiative that first round, but really they only get the Advantage on that attack.
 

Hiding mid-combat as a bonus action to get advantage and sneak attack is a reasonable strategy for rogues.

That should have nothing to do with surprise.

If it happens all the time and they stay behind the same pillar it makes sense to have an enemy come looking, possibly breaking the out of sight requirement and thus removing the hidden condition.

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I have allowed a chance at a player gaining surprise if they are entering an existing combat from surprise for the first time (ie. not participated in any previous rounds and Stealth beats all Passive Perceptions). I have had some assassins try to convince me that they automatically get their surprise attack if they beat the opponents Initiative that first round, but really they only get the Advantage on that attack.

To me this is a misunderstanding. A character doesn't "gain" surprise; rather a character can "be" surprised. Being surprised means you don't get to act on your first turn while you get your bearings straight. Are you truly playing that when the hidden assassin pops up, the other characters miss their next turn? If not then I would say you are not imposing surprise.
 

To me this is a misunderstanding. A character doesn't "gain" surprise; rather a character can "be" surprised. Being surprised means you don't get to act on your first turn while you get your bearings straight. Are you truly playing that when the hidden assassin pops up, the other characters miss their next turn? If not then I would say you are not imposing surprise.

Not really a misunderstanding as making a DM ruling to allow the Assassin the effect of one of its abilities in a situation that makes sense. Obviously I'm not going to halt the already active combat and the Rogue will still need to set his place in the Initiative order as he enters combat. For this specific case, it would definitely require a certain amount of planning and set-up and a proper environment. The player is giving up a least 1 combat round to make use of this effect and still must make a good Stealth check.
 

That's fine and within your purview as DM. But personally, I'd express it as "I let the assassin use his Death Attack" rather than "gain surprise." :)
 

One of my players is an assassin rogue who likes to hide as a bonus action in mid-battle and comes back for a sneak attack. He says this gives him surprise, thus an auto-crit. I've let him get away with it so far, but it sounds very wrong to me.

So, hiding mid-battle; surprise or not surprise? That is the question.

He's wrong. The answer you seek is in the rules for surprise in the PHB. Pick it up and have a read.

A creature can only ever be surprised on round one of a given combat, and only if it was unaware of ALL hostile creatures at the moment the DM called for initiative to be rolled.

Example:

1) Your Players PC (probably an assassin rogue from the sounds of it) approaches an enemy creature. Assume he in in a forest providing ample cover for stealth (and his stealth roll beats the creatures passive perception). He stealthily closes to 60' and declares he shoots the creature with his crossbow.

2) YOU ROLL INITIATIVE AT THIS POINT. You do not resolve the attack outside of initiative order. You never resolve an attack outside of initiative order. This is one of the most common mistakes made by DMs. A hostile act declared triggers the transition from narrative time to the combat sequence. To resolve that hostile act, you first roll initiative.

3) As the enemy creature was unaware of ANY hostile threat when combat began (you called for initiative in response to a hostile act being declared), when combat begins he is surprised on round one.

4) Being surprised he cant take any actions or move on his first turn, and cant take reactions until after his turn ends (at which point he ceases being surprised). He has to sit there like an idiot while the assassin resolves the crossbow attack he declared a few seconds ago.

5) To successfully use his assassinate ability, the assassin needs to get his shot in before the enemy creatures first turn ends (and he ceases being surprised) on round one. In other words, our assassin needs to have a higher initiative result than the enemy creature.

6) Assuming the assassin was unnoticed when combat began, and he rolled higher on his initiative check than his enemy, he gets his chance to assassinate him (automatic critical hit if he hits, and the attack is made with advantage because the assassin was hidden).

7) If our assassin rolled lower than the enemy creature on his initiative check, then he doesn't get assassinate on round one (no critical hits, but he still makes his attack with advantage due to being hidden).

8) From round two onwards, there is no more surprise allowed. Either party can hide from each other (and attack from hiding gaining advantage on one attack), but as they are aware of enemy threats, and of each other they cant be surprised again.
 
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Not really a misunderstanding as making a DM ruling to allow the Assassin the effect of one of its abilities in a situation that makes sense. Obviously I'm not going to halt the already active combat and the Rogue will still need to set his place in the Initiative order as he enters combat. For this specific case, it would definitely require a certain amount of planning and set-up and a proper environment. The player is giving up a least 1 combat round to make use of this effect and still must make a good Stealth check.

Surprise in 5E not just 'get attacked by a hidden creature'. Thats just a precondition that enables surprise. Surprise in 5E is more of a 'get attacked with your pants down by a hidden creature when you are not expecting any imminent danger'.

If you're already engaged in combat, you cant be attacked with your pants down. You're hyper-alert, and ready to rock and roll. The best anyone can do is hide from you (and get the benefits of being hidden). The time for you to be surprised has come and gone, and now you're up to your neck in it.
 

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