High AC normal?

[KiloGex]

lHell, if he were alone against a CR 16 foe, he should have about a 50-50 chance of winning, since another [PC Class 16] is supposedly a CR 16 challenge.

The way I've always seen it is a 4-man team of <level X> should be able to take down a CR <x> encounter with moderate ease.

 

[Stalker0]

The way I've always seen it is a 4-man team of <level X> should be able to take down a CR <x> encounter with moderate ease.

And since that's the definition of the CR system, I would say you are right

 

[tylermalan]

I think you guys are misinterpreting what Sky said. Kilo is right about the CR system, but Sky is saying that a character class at level 16 is supposedly a CR 16 encounter (for a group of 4 level 16 PCs to fight). Since the CR system when applied to monsters is an approximation of their "level," then the fighter should have an equal time with a CR 16 monster as he would against a level 16 PC.

Also, when he talks about the chances of winning, I'm fairly certain he's referring to the dice rolls, meaning the average roll needed to hurt the CR 16 monster and BE hurt BY the same monster is about a 10 or 11 on a d20 with that AC. I don't know if this is right, though - I just think that's what Sky is saying.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Doesn't mean even die rolls. Lots of monsters will have immunities, DR, lots of natural weapons, Su abilities and spell-likes to hurt you with, etc... Fighter just rolls attack and damage...

 

[frankthedm]

Haven't checked magic items yet but is it something I should expect on PF? o0

It can get a bit worse. Area Dispel Magic was removed and only left on Greater Dispel Magic, targeted Dispel Magic only takes off one Buff and targeted Greater Dispel only can dispel "one spell for every four caster levels" making it harder to clean the buffs off if someone has too many on them.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

On the other hand, regular Dispel is no longer capped at +10, either.

 

[cattoy]

By level 16, it's hardly unhittable. I had a 3.5 cleric hitting mid 30s at 8th level...

 

[Dingo333]

It could be worse. For example a magus I am playing (extrapolated to level 16, level 7 now)
Level 16

Armor: Mithral Chainshirt +5 (+9)
Shield(special circumstance Staff magus can add the enhancement bonus of their staff to AC as a shield bonus): +12 (+5/+5 quarterstaff, +4 from arcane pool, +3 class ability)
Dex: +6 (max of a mithral chainshirt)
Natural: +3 amulet of natural armor
Deflection: +3 (ring of deflection)
Ioun stone Dusty Rose Prism: +1 Insight

For a grand total of 44

Multiclassing in the next few levels can put it even higher. Add Inquisitor and you can get another +1+1/5 inquisitor levels via sacred. Pick up dodge (improved over 3.5 to be a constant bonus aslong as not flat footed). How about a monk's robes for another +1.

So advance 6 levels. Epic Armor (+7), Epic Weapon (+7/+7), Dodge, Inquisitor Judgment +2 Arcane pool adds +5 and monk's robes for an AC of 53

Get a +5 ring and a +5 amulet and you are at AC 57

I also add combat expertise (pre req for improved trip) and get at 23 for an AC of 62 and a -5 to hit

Course, this character was designed to MAX AC, his hit is not great, but it is still decent at hitting, against medium foes and smaller he can trip and he has some spell power for swarms and such

He does not have spell resistance (but can get some decent resistance via an item) and in an antimagic field his armor drops to 20, easy for any fighter at level 16 to rip apart with just a d8 for HP

 

[Anguish]

Wlv 16 warrior (Hobgoblin) with a 42 AC:
+14 armor (+5 Armor Spikes Mithral Full Plate)
+7 shield (+5 Arrow Catching, Shield Spikes Mithral Shield Heavy Steel,)
+5 dex
+3 natural armor
+3 deflect.

Haven't checked magic items yet but is it something I should expect on PF?

Your player should have AC 40. Full plate has a MaxDex of +1. So they only get to apply 1 of their 5 Dex bonus to AC. That said, making the armor out of mithral increases its MaxDex by 2, allowing the hobgoblin to apply 3 of their 5 Dex bonus to AC. So despite having +5 for Dex, they only get to use +3. Net result of AC 40.

Full plate (1,500gp) & masterwork (150gp) & armor spikes (50gp) & mithral (9,000gp) & +5 enchantment (25,000gp) = 35,200gp

Heavy steel shield (20gp) & masterwork (150gp) & shield spikes (10gp) & mithral (1,000gp) & +6 in enchantments (36,000gp) = 37,180gp

ring of protection +3 18,000gp

amulet of natural armor +3 18,000gp

Net expenditure: 108,380gp

Wealth-by-level recommends 315,000gp at 16th level. So your player has spent a third of their wealth on armor class and got a 40.

Perspective: a typical raging barbarian will have 16 (BAB) & 12 (STR including a +6 ability enhancement item) & likely a +4 weapon & a good chance of Weapon Focus, able to hit +38. Average dice roll is 10. So the barbarian has a 50/50 chance of hitting AC 48. He literally only misses your hobgoblin by rolling a 1. Rolling a 2 + 38 = 40, a hit. Sure, his second attack only hits a 43 on average leaving him a 70% chance to hit. This third attack drops down to a 45% hit chance and his fourth attack is a measly 20% chance to hit. This means... a typical barbarian is going to still lay down decent damage against your hobgoblin PC. The same applies for fighters, and other to-hit PC classes.

This isn't unreasonable.

 

[cattoy]

Your player should have AC 40. Full plate has a MaxDex of +1. So they only get to apply 1 of their 5 Dex bonus to AC. That said, making the armor out of mithral increases its MaxDex by 2, allowing the hobgoblin to apply 3 of their 5 Dex bonus to AC. So despite having +5 for Dex, they only get to use +3. Net result of AC 40.

It's called Armor Training. If this character had a Dex of 24, his AC would be 44.