High level 3e magic item purchasing... when does enough become too much?

[Piratecat]

I think I'd like some advice.

The PCs in my game are 14th-18th level, they've got a reasonable amount of cash, and they're going shopping. In general they're not shopping for extremely powerful items; more for a variety of medium power devices targetted to make up for their weaknesses or boost their strengths. The PCs have never had unlimited access to magic items, as a person can usually only buy magic in Sigil and the continent's largest cities. Now, though, the group has access to plane shift, gate, teleport without error, wind walk, and a host of powerful travel spells that let them go to where the rare magical markets are. In addition, they can use divinations to find out the best place ot head to find the items that they want.

In addition, they're making items now, using their feats to create useful low-cost items.

This isn't inherently a problem, but it feels awfully odd; for the first time, the accessibility of items is partially out of my control, assuming I follow the rules that I've created my campaign around. Part of me says, "Don't worry. They can't use too many things in one round," but it still feels odd.

Anyone else run up against this? How'd it work out?

Thanks!

 

[Atticus_of_Amber]

Huh?

Piratecat, *you* are asking *us* for DM advice?

Or do I smell troll?

BTW: i love Agar, he's very cool.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Well, technically 3e has everything balanced. So if the PCs have the appropriate ammount of gold for their level, they should be able to buy the items and still be OK.

That being said, the cost for items in the DMG is what the wizard needs to make the stuff. It does not include profit. Throw on another 20% minimum. Also, restrict the exotic combinations. +3 returning shuriken of fire are a bad idea, for example.

Incidentally, you could offer them with two such stores. One has items they sorta-kinda want and another store has exactly what they want. The thing is, the owner of store B needs a few favors done ...

Biggus Geekus' Rule #17: When in doubt, make a quest out of it.

 

[EricNoah]

In my current campaign, cash is rarely enough. You have to know the right people and do special favors for them, if you know what I mean. Quests and stuff...

 

[rounser]

Biggus Geekus' Rule #17: When in doubt, make a quest out of it.

Ha, you beat me to it, I was thinking that as I read your post.
They may be able to meet the gp price, but adding a quest to that price will slow them down enough to make them earn the item in other ways. Or, waive the monetary price and make the price a quest instead.

In a roleplaying sense, it's quite likely that someone needing that amount of money also has big problems to sort out.

That doesn't stop the PCs saying "no deal" and attempting to divine someone else selling the same widget, without a catch. It also doesn't stop them attempting to steal it. But, with luck the players will take the hint in a metagaming sense and not resent such an approach - after all, they get an adventure, and the widget they were after. What adventurer could ask for more?

 

[Kugar]

PC,

While making and buying magic does seem wierd to me too, 3E does a lot to promote this. Some things to keep in mind.

-Remember that the magic items are in the DMG not the PHB. It seems like the magic items in your campaign have a unique flavor, and letting the players use the DMG as a shopping/creation list WILL destroy some of that flavor. A player has to be very diligent in separating Metagame knowledge from character knowledge at this point. A character may know all the spells and feats to enspell an item, but that in itself does not impart the knowledege of making the item. The DM is still in control of knowledge, down time is and how available those couple of thousands of GP worth of ingredients are. I sure most magical items are not sticks covered with crushed gems.

-A lot of balance issues have arisen Check the errata and learn from other designers mistakes as to what is unbalanced.

-The DM giviths and the DM takeths away Now more than ever, you may find something slipped by and is overpowered. Since you are a certified Rat Bastard I know you will have no problem dealing with it

-Trade you my 75 scryb sprites for your shivan dragon. Book values aside, who would really sell a Dearn's(sp) Instant Fortress? If you are powerfull enough to make most of this stuff you are probably in the same boat as the PC. Or perhaps they do have a use for the coinage ... Bwah Ha Ha

I'll give you a treasury worth of diamonds for that nifty sword.
Yawn
Oh, and a Prison Isle on some Prime World too.
Yawn - huh! Yeah! Add a pentagram, and get me a copy of the local laws and we'll work out a contract ....

-Show me a staff of unimaginable power...Hi!...That's not what I meant Divinations and wishes can often time be misleading.

Try making the most reliable sources the one with a link to the characters. Build Caliphas(sp?) enough temples and you may get a minor aritfact, and private 'audiance' with a female sorceror might get one a leg up in negotiations ... the list is endless, but they all invlove story - not +1 belts of bells and whistles.

YMMV,
Kugar
Edit - Darn Language Skills and Niceness

 

[Rashak Mani]

Consideration should be given to what could be considered normal... if they ask for simple bonuses then it shouldnt be too much of a hassle... weapons with many different abilities arent normal.

You could make them pay more to get the exact stuff they want... after all a wizard somewhere will be willing to make the stuff eventually.

 

[WanderingMonster]

If you're really worried, you could have a nasty vendor selling cursed items at a discount.

"It's a vorpal, keen, ghost touch, shocking greatsword +3 that allows the bearer free use of the Monkeygrip technique. For you...half-price."

[later]

"Ya' know, it's funny...but every time I slay a foe with this great sword I bought, I grow a breast. Now, the first two weren't so bad, but I'm kinda concerned about the placement of the fourth and fifth ones."

--WM

 

[rounser]

Trade you my 75 scryb sprites for your shivan dragon.

Good point Kugar. At that level of item power, barter is probably the rule. Would the PCs accept thousands of gp for their favourite items? Nope - but they'd be interested in swapping for items more useful to them. NPCs are probably the same.

Presumably not everyone with items that powerful likes having their privacy invaded by scrying, either. The PCs could get in all sorts of trouble by inquiring after or knocking on the door of an NPC who values their privacy and being left alone more than anything the PCs could ever offer them.

 

[Victim]

Right now, I'm playing instead of DMing, so I'm looking at things from the other end. Our Dm, when not using a published adventure or significant NPC, awards random treasure. We got a mere handful of useful items in our adventures - no magical weapons of a type that the group used, no armors that we prefered, etc. Without item creation and sale, NO ONE would be in control of the items in the game.

Many magic items are incredibly expensive. Who's buying, selling, or creating these items: archmagi, high priests, powerful adventurers or those interested in their affairs. What happens when the party buys an item from them? That group can end up getting lots of money. Among the only things to spend that much money on are other items. Ever purchase the group makes runs the risk of filling the coffers of some evil enterprise, ala the Red Wizards of FR. Of course, the end beneficiary of the money doesn't have to be so obvious.

Edit:

About barter vesus payment in coin:

As a player, I usually prefer coin to most items. Sure, if the item is really useful, I'll take it, but coin gives you freedom to create your own items. Someone looking to create a special weapon, or a would be lich seeking the money to build his phylactery.

Also, in barter, a bunch of lesser items don't equal a greater one. In the example, 75 Scryb sprites, which everyone probably has a bunch of, probably aren't worth a rare Shivan dragon. Because of the way things stack, a whole bunch of little items aren't worth one big one. Would you rather have 25 +1 rings or one +5 ring?