High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian

[Diirk]

Hold Person
The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. (This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)
A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can’t swim and may drown.
Arcane Focus: A small, straight piece of iron.

You can move the horse around since it was never held, but making your saving throw IS your turn, you can't make any attacks.

Edit: I got beaten ;(

 

[Sarellion]

@Heliopolix

I find it rather strange that one person would drink 13000 gp worth in potions for one fight and I don´t think that this would prove anything

Can´t we get some characters who are a bit more on actual gaming reality.

 

[Lamoni]

Ghengis: You try to shake off the paralysis again. You succeed! (this time your elven bonus made the difference. Thanks for pointing it out). Post your action when you're ready.

I realize that everything is the DM's decision, but just a few comments. Under hold person, you get a new save each round, but it says that it takes a full round action. Therefore if you succeed in later saving throw, you are no longer paralyzed, but your action is spent.

Also, about the horse attacking on its own... not while the rider was being held. What would keep him from falling off. Riding a horse while you are frozen stiff invites disaster (even if you have 1,000 ranks in ride). Riding while the horse attacks would be even harder. The horse would rise into the air, and the rider would fall off.

I am still confused as to how this ride around in a circle until the horse spots an invisible person works. There is no empathic link and that requires a lot of communication between the rider and the horse. You are telling the horse not to ride to any specific destination, not just ride in a circle, but basically do what you have to and then stop when you find the invisible man. Yes, animals are capable of this... just look at dogs. But in order to use dogs effectively to do that it requires a lot of training before animal and master communicate effectively. Also, why would the horse have such bad feelings towards the gnome? Most horses (even very loyal ones that are trained for battle can be captured by an enemy and used effectively) The loyalty a steed has towards its master is generally exaggerated. Special mounts are an exception, but just look at a special mount's intelligence also.

edit - I got beaten twice. I just spend too much time previewing my reply...

 

[The Freak]

@Heliopolix

I find it rather strange that one person would drink 13000 gp worth in potions for one fight and I don´t think that this would prove anything

Can´t we get some characters who are a bit more on actual gaming reality.

You want gaming reality, go use the characters from the DMG.

 

[Endur]

Well, remember, that there are no "buffing rounds" in this combat. So, that person is drinking those 13000 gp worth in potions while his enemy is killing him.

So, hopefully, the potion drinker will be dead before we have to worry about what the potions did to him.

@Heliopolix

I find it rather strange that one person would drink 13000 gp worth in potions for one fight and I don´t think that this would prove anything

Can´t we get some characters who are a bit more on actual gaming reality.

 

[Endur]

Something else to remember about animals is that invisibility isn't very useful against them.

Humans depend upon sight as their primary sense mechanism.

Animals tend to rely more upon smell and hearing. Visual sense, while still important, isn't as critical to them.

There is no reason to think the horse has ever lost track of where the gnome is.

 

[Endur]

Actually, it depends on the order of events. I might be able to shoot arrows because Mr. Mugly took a round of actions.

i.e. I could be wrong, but here is one interpretation of the order of events:

Round 1: Mugly dissapears better than Houdini.
Round 1: Ghengis and Khan look for the missing Mugly. One arrow hits Mugly.
Round 2: Mugly casts Hold Person on Ghengis. Ghengis fails saving throw.
Round 2: Ghengis spends full action to free himself, makes saving throw but can't do anything. Khan thinks something is wrong, and stops attacking because of inexplicable mental confusion.
Round 3: Mugly does something invisibly with no visible effect.
Round 3: Ghengis and Khan ride forward and hopefully fill Mugly with arrows.

The alternative is:

Round 1: Mugly disappears better than Houdini.
Round 1: Ghengis and Khan look for the missing Mugly. One arrow hits Mugly.
Round 2: Mugly casts Hold Person on Ghengis. Ghengis fails saving throw.
Round 2: Ghengis spends full action to free himself, fails saving throw and can't do anything. Khan thinks something is wrong, and stops attacking because of inexplicable mental confusion.
Round 3: Mugly does something invisibly with no visible effect.
Round 3: Ghengis spends full action to free himself, makes saving throw and can't do anything. Khan does something to be determined.

You can move the horse around since it was never held, but making your saving throw IS your turn, you can't make any attacks.

 

[jarlaxlecq]

Something else to remember about animals is that invisibility isn't very useful against them.

Humans depend upon sight as their primary sense mechanism.

Animals tend to rely more upon smell and hearing. Visual sense, while still important, isn't as critical to them.

There is no reason to think the horse has ever lost track of where the gnome is.

Since when do animals not use vision, last time i checked many animals have vision superior to humans. A horse isn't a dog, no reason to assume it galaps along using its nose and not its eyes. With its nose it could tell that there is a gnome around but doesn't mean it knows where it is.

 

[heliopolix]

heh, yah figured it was a bit much. Im gonna edit the other post so it just shows the rediculous potion expenditure. Heres a more permanant character build.

[spoiler]
Krun, Half-orc barbarian 12, Chaotic Hungry.

        base     item    rage
str    22+6     24+7   30+10
dex   13+1
con   16+3     18+4   24+7
int      6-2
wis     8-1
cha     6-2

HP : 134 (rage +36)
AC:  16=10+5+1 T:11 FF:16 (-2 rage, +1 Haste)
Init: +1
Speed: 40 (haste +30)

For  12=8+4 (+3 Rage)
Ref    5=4+1 (+1 Haste)
Will    3=4-1 (+3 Rage)

Feats/Abilities:
Fast Movement
Illiteracy
Rage 4/day
Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +4
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Damage Reduction 2/-
Greater Rage
1)Power Attack
3)Weapon Focus(Falchion)
6)Endurance
9)Improved Critical(Falchion)
12)Die Hard

Skills 
Intimidate +13 = 15 -2

+1 Brilliant Energy Falchion                      50,375
+1 chain Shirt of Med. Fortification           16,250
Boots of Speed                                     12,000
Amulet of Heath +2                                 4,000
Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2                      4,000
Po. of Cure Mod. Wounds x4                      1200
Po. of Cure Light Wounds x3                       150
Beanie w/ propeller                                     25

Total GP Spent: 88k

Falchion: +21/+16/+11              2d4+11    15-20 x2
  rage     +24/+19/+14              2d4+16    15-20 x2
  haste    +1, extra attack
  PA        -1p                                +2p

Expected fighting capacity : rage, haste PA-8
             +17/+17/+12/+7          2d4+32   15-20*2

Why PA -8: Because I'm looking at only Dex, Dodge, Deflection, Size, and NA to 
opponents AC, not armor or shield (even magical, unless they are wooden).
Estimating +2 dex, +2 Defl, +2 NA, +1 Dodge, +5 Com expertise, thats an AC vs 
me of 22. Statistical analysis shows the optimal PA amount is where the middle 
strike has a 50% chance to hit.

Over four rounds, should average like this for the four attacks.
h = hit, m = miss

H-H-M-M = 2 hits
H-M-H-M = 2 hits
M-H-M-H = 2 hits
H-H-H-M = 3 hits

Also: 25% chance to threat/hit, 56.25% chance to crit/threat (average of 75, 
75, 50, 25 %). So: 14% (slightly above 1/8) chance to crit/hit.
Average damage per round, averaging 2d4 = 5, and crit damage only adds +1x 
weapon damage, So: 2 hits ([4d4+64]=74), +crit % for 2 hits ([1/4*{2d4+32}]=9) = approx 83 damage/round. 
About 4/5 the damage that the bow fighter could do, but then I have enough 
hp to avoid dieing untill he does, when i can hopefully drink some Heal Po. to 
remedy my walking dead man status. Of course, his horse would Fubar me.

[/spoiler]

 

[heliopolix]

Well, remember, that there are no "buffing rounds" in this combat. So, that person is drinking those 13000 gp worth in potions while his enemy is killing him.

So, hopefully, the potion drinker will be dead before we have to worry about what the potions did to him.

Thats why first po was invis and second was FLY.
Round 1)Even if Fighter wins init and managed to make it to me (ie boots
of speed, horse, ect), he gets a charge attack. Most likely hits me. I take 5'
step away, draw invis, drink it.

Round2)Fighter steps up, makes full attack. Maximum attacks are 6 (3 via BAB, 2 via GTWF, 1 via haste). say all hit ac, but 50% miss b/c of invis. Ive
taken 4 hits now. I draw po of fly, quaff it, and step 5' in some direction.

Round3)Fighter now has to make listen check to locate me, can attack my prior
square, or make other attacks at others squares. Lets say he guesses correctly
with one of them, and it hits AC and misschance. Ive taken 5 hits now. I still
have over 2 min to fly around drink heal po, and buff.

End result : Me buffed, him not, me at almost max capacity, him unhurt, and.. i get surprize charge.

The only way to really fubar this plan is to make a sucessfully trip me on the charge.

I could have done the Potion Buff with a fighter and gotten the same result. I was just trying to prove that fore-knowledge of the fight is going to skew results. I still think that the Barb vs. monster and Fighter vs. Monster and compare the results is really the only way to see. Otherwise, metagaming enters too much into it.