High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian

[jgsugden]

There are too many variables to consider. At what range does the battle begin? What type of weapons are available? What types of magic items are available? How will terrain effect movement? Do they each have only one good stat or many good stats? What source books can be used to select feats? What feats were selected by each character? What race is each PC? Heck, even things like weather and lighting conditions could change the outcome of a battle like this one.

The truly important question is not which is better, it is if both can be played effectively as PCs. The answer to that question is definitely yes.

 

[Endur]

28 point buy, level 20, both are armed with great swords and wearing full plate armor.

They are in a 10' radius pit that is too high to jump out of and too slick to climb out of.

No magic items.

Feats from the PHB and Complete Warrior only. No PRCs.

 

[green slime]

Of course the barbarian could just run away (his speed is usually greater), swim across the river, and hide behind a tree. If the fighter wanted to pursue, he would have to remove his armor and then it would be an easy case for the barbarian.

Or the barbarian could just run and live in the wilderness off of nuts and berries. The fighter would try to pursue, lose the trail, get lost, and then die of starvation because of no survival skill. The barbarian could even always stay within ear shot and out of sight with his better listen skill. Then he could show up occasionally only to lead the fighter further away from civilization and help.

And while they are options, it wouldn't be much of a fight, then tho'...

28 point buy, level 20, both are armed with great swords and wearing full plate armor.

They are in a 10' radius pit that is too high to jump out of and too slick to climb out of.

No magic items.

Feats from the PHB and Complete Warrior only. No PRCs.

Too limited, given that the fighter has feats to spare on non-in-your-face combat feats. Combat which isn't that unusual, and gives the fighters more options in any given tactical situation.

 

[jgsugden]

28 point buy, level 20, both are armed with great swords and wearing full plate armor.

They are in a 10' radius pit that is too high to jump out of and too slick to climb out of.

No magic items.

Feats from the PHB and Complete Warrior only. No PRCs.

How are those 28 points spent? There are plenty of intelligent ways to spend them for each class? And if the strength of one selection matches up with the weakness of the foes' selection, an advantage is possessed.

How are feats selected? There are millions of intelligent combinations of feats for a fighter to choose. Some will match up better against the particular choices of the barbarian.

Do they have perfect knowledge of the abilities of the other? What tactics are used?

For any specified combination of abilities for one class, I'm sure somebody could come up with a set of feats/attributes/etc ... to create a character from the other class that beats the first character more than 50% of the time under certain tactical assumptions.

This is a ridiculous exercise. Both classes work. Although most of the circumstances you've set favoir tha barbarian, a fighter could still beat him with the right choices of feats and abilities.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Why don't we actually do this? We could have a little arena battle. One on one.

I volunteer to DM the match. I need one volunteer to create a 12th level fighter, and one volunteer to create a 12th level Barbarian (why 12th? Arbitrary decision on my part.)

Rules: Standard 3.5 core rules. No splatbooks. 28-point point buy system. Standard starting gold for 12th level characters. No leadership feat. Items purchasable from PH/DMG lists at standard prices. Assume average HP per level (after 1st of course): 6+Con for fighter, 7+Con for the Barbarian.

Assume the battle will take place in a broad, enclosed arena - a cubic space 200' on a side. The opponents will begin 100' feet apart. The battlefield is broad, open and free of obstacles, trees, etc... No surprise round.

Post your stat blocks in

Spoiler

tags. Honor system not to look at each other's bag of tricks during the combat.

I will roll all dice.


Any takers? Any rules I missed? The first two volunteers to post

Spoiler

ed stat blocks get to battle each other!

 

[frankthedm]

With PrC?

ho ho ho, Frenzied Berserker wins AWAYS...

Yep the FB doesn't die until after combat.

 

[green slime]

I'll create a fighter for this battle, MerakSpielman.

I'll post you my creation sometime this weekend, if that is OK with you.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Great!

Who wants to take on the Slimy One as a Barbarian?

 

[DarkMaster]

Yep the FB doesn't die until after combat.

Guess in that case it's a tie.

Anyway I hate this PrC how can you explain still being figthing when you reached -200 HP.

 

[Endur]

Here's my 12th level fighter.

Spoiler

Ghengis
Elf
Alignment: Neutral
Str 14
Dex 17 +2 racial +3 level +4 gloves= 26
Con 14 -2 racial = 12
Int 11
Wis 8
Chr 8
HP: 88
Initiative: +12
AC: 10 + 4 armor + 6 dex = 20 plus possibly +5 magic vestment +5 barkskin +5 shield of faith +1 haste = 36

To Hit Single Attack: +12 BAB +8 Dex + 2 GWF + 5 Oathbow +2 Bracers = +29
Full Attack (including Rapid Shot): +27/+27/+22/+17
Critical Threat: 19-20/x3
Situational Modifiers: +1 to hit in 30’
Penalty for movement: -2 to hit if the mount is taking a double move, -4 if mount runs
Bonuses haste (+1 to hit, +1 attack), heroism (+2 to hit)

Damage: 1d8 +2 strength + 5 oathbow +2d6 oathbow +1 bracers = 1d8+2d6+8
Situational Modifiers: +1 to damage in 30’

Skills: Ride (15 ranks + 8 dex +2 synergy =+25 on ride check),
Handle Animal (5),
Jump (5), Balance (1), Tumble (1)
Feats (5 normal, 7 fighter)
Greater Weapon Focus (composite longbow)
Greater Weapon Specialization (composite longbow)
Improved Critical (composite longbow)
Improved Initiative
Improved Precise Shot
Mounted Combat
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Quickdraw
Rapid Shot
Weapon Focus (composite longbow)
Weapon Specialization (composite longbow)

Magic Items (level 12, 88k)
Oathbow 25,600 gp
Bracers of Archery, Greater 25k
Gloves of Dexterity +4, 16k
Horseshoes of Speed 3k
+1 composite longbow (str 14): 2k
mithral chain shirt 1k
Dust of Appearance: 1800 gp
Potions: Haste, Heroism, Barkskin +5, Shield of Faith +5
Oils: Magic Vestment +5 (x2)
non-magic composite longbow (str 14)
Heavy Warhorse with military saddle, full plate barding, AC: 22, possibly +5 magic vestment (from one of the oils), Ride check can substitute for armor class (+25 skill check) for one hit a round. HP: 30. Move: 65’ feet. Run feat.
300 arrows in various quivers