OK, (looks like somebody beat you to the punch, Green Slime, but hey, maybe we can do multiple rounds) but please include break-downs of your attacks, damage, saves, hit points, AC, initiative, etc..., including what the numbers will be if you use your items or (for the potential barbarian player) if you rage. Oh, and stat-blocks for any animals you have with you or can somehow (via items, for instance) summon.
Rules: Standard 3.5 core rules. No splatbooks. 28-point point buy system. Standard starting gold for 12th level characters. No leadership feat. Items purchasable from PH/DMG lists at standard prices. Assume average HP per level (after 1st of course): 6+Con for fighter, 7+Con for the Barbarian.
I apologize for being new, but I have never played the 28-point buy system (and never really cared to). Could you explain how it works? It is such a common thing on these boards, but I have never had it explained to me. Also, what is the starting gold for 12th level characters? I have always played characters starting from level one and don't even know where to look for that info.
If I have time, I'd like to build a barbarian... thanks for your patience in explaining things.
Point buy: The DM decides how many points you get to spend on ability scores. All scores start at 8. It costs a certain number of points to change your 8 to a better number, based on this chart:
A L20 fighter vs. a L20 Barbarian when they have identical equipment?
Considering that barbarians aren't proficient in heavy armor (though I guess that wouldn't be a waste of a feat for them) and lose the use of several class abilities when wearing it (but those abilities would be useless against the fighter, anyways), I can see why that went in the barbarian's favor.
I think under more normal circumstances, the fighter will win. Barbarians in their light/medium armor normally have a much lower AC than a fighter will -- a L20 barbarian with a +5 breastplate would cap out at 23 (21 after Rage), while the fighter with +5 fullplate and a +5 shield would cap out at 31 or so. With +5 weapons, weapon focus, and arbitrary Str scores of 30 for the Barb and 26 for the Fighter, we get attack routines of +36/+31/+26/+21 out of the Barb and +35/+30/+25/+20 out of the fighter, with the Barb getting another +4 to hit when he rages. The fighter shall be a Bastard sword weilder, since he's a sword & board sort of guy. So +35/+30/+25/+20 1d10+17 per blow. We'll assume that our barbarian is properly barbaric and uses a great-axe, so +40/+35/+30/+25 1d12+26, with as much as another +40 from power attack if he goes for broke.
Holy crap.
A paladin, ranger, or druid going up against that Barbarian would be splattered in nothing flat, but Mr. Fighter spent a lot of levels getting options. Lots of options. And he'll need them, since barbarians HAVE improved enough from 3.0 to completely throw my expectations out of whack.
The most obvious problem for Mr. Fighter that occurs to me is that if the barbarian crits him, especially on a 10 point or so power attack, the fight is basically over -- Mr. Fighter is NOT going to recover from taking 3d12+138 (!) on a single hit, especially since the best he can do is 2d10+74 on a return crit. Mr. Fighter SHOULD be able to crit more often, though.
Mr. Fighter's best option would be to put some distance between them, leave himself open for a power-attack from the barbarian, and hope that the the barbarian sacrifices enough attack bonus that an Improved Disarm attempt will actually work -- or if Mr. Fighter is feeling particularly brave, he can try to Sunder the barbarian's axe, since I'm not sure if he could keep the barbarian from reclaiming it on a disarm. Otherwise, if Mr. Fighter has a 20 CON and maximum HP, Mr. Barbarian can probably splatter him in under 2 rounds.
Well, crap. I sure showed me
Endur's mounted archer that seems specifically geared towards fighting barbarians certainly has much better odds than a melee fighter does.
Why don't you just use the NPC versions of the Fighter and Barbarian out of the DMG. That way you wouldn't have to worry about character builds that would be customized to take the other out...
Why don't you just use the NPC versions of the Fighter and Barbarian out of the DMG. That way you wouldn't have to worry about character builds that would be customized to take the other out...
At 20th level, with feats from PHB and CW, a fighter can get two elven lightblades, and max out on two weapon feats (with the appropriate defense feats). That's 8 attacks per round for the fighter, crit 15+.
The fighter wins. The barbarian doesn't have enough feats to make such a build.
And I agree that if you want to make a contest, it's only fair to use the ones, straight from the DMG, but in this case, the barbarian will win, because the fighter isn't optimized (TWF).
