High Level Fighter Vs. High Level Barbarian

[green slime]

I recall this discusion from elsewhere. IRC, it is pretty close, but the fighter wins out due to Combat Expertise to outlast the Barbarian rage, and then womps him, but it was still close (assuming average rolls). Also I suggest keeping PrC out of it, or you aren't comparing Ftr vs Brb, you are comparing something completely different.

If you add in the Superior Expertise feat from OA, I guess it becomes a foregone conclusion... The versatility of the fighter far exceeds that of the Barbarian. Too much also depends on the setup: The average barbarian is going to have a hard time against a Mounted Specialist Fighter on an open plain. OTH Stick a Dex spring attack fighter in tiny inescapable box against a Barbarian, then...

 

[Lamoni]

Yeah thats a good way of looking at it. A contest to see who can create the more powerful warrior. I'm a little hesitant to include PrCs but i guess you can use them.

I actually can't say from experience, but I would hope that the fighter would win. The barbarian gets more skills and skill points which means he is not such a loser when it comes to other things like hearing the rogue sneaking around the party or getting lost and starving to death in the wilderness. Also with his lighter armor he is better at moving silently, hiding and swimming (and everything else that involves an armor check penalty) The fighter, if dropped in water will almost always drown unless someone rescues him with something like water walk. The barbarian can usually make it to shore.

The fighter should be the best fighter. The barbarian is a good alternative to fighter when you want to be capable at a few other things (especially when the party is lacking either a ranger or a rogue) Usually the fighter is in a balanced party though so everyone else can pick up the slack where the fighter is lacking.

 

[Ripper-nk]

With PrC?

ho ho ho, Frenzied Berserker wins AWAYS...

 

[two]

fighter

I don't see how a high level fighter would lose this one, unless he's been built in a very strange way.

The high level fighter can finish off 3-4 combat trees, thus have excellent ranged attacks, reach attacks, AC, and perhaps bonus hit points as well. Throw in the improved trip/ sunder options and it's verging on silly.

The deal with barbarian vs. fighter 1 on 1 combats is pretty simple. If the barbarian rages, the fighter just stays away until the rage wears out (ready an action to "move away when the barbarian starts to attack"). Do this for 15 or 20 rounds until the barbarian's rage ends, or heck just run in circles, then go back in with a reach weapon and combat expertise and whatever and whittle away. Repeat as required. Throw in a trip here or there, whatever.

A barbarian is absolutely a one trick pony. The fighter will trade ranged attacks and win; trade special attacks and win (trip, grapple, etc. due to feats improving these); trade straight up combat and win. The only time the fighter loses is if he stands there and trades full attacks with a ranging power attacking barbarian. This is a very easy scenario to avoid, unless they are tied together with a rope.

 

[cool hand luke]

you'd best ditch PRC or the frezied berserker can't be killed. Also, what's the setup? how much room do you have to maneuver, etc?

 

[Lamoni]

I recall this discusion from elsewhere. IRC, it is pretty close, but the fighter wins out due to Combat Expertise to outlast the Barbarian rage, and then womps him, but it was still close (assuming average rolls).

Of course the barbarian could just run away (his speed is usually greater), swim across the river, and hide behind a tree. If the fighter wanted to pursue, he would have to remove his armor and then it would be an easy case for the barbarian.

Or the barbarian could just run and live in the wilderness off of nuts and berries. The fighter would try to pursue, lose the trail, get lost, and then die of starvation because of no survival skill. The barbarian could even always stay within ear shot and out of sight with his better listen skill. Then he could show up occasionally only to lead the fighter further away from civilization and help.

If you are truly pitting the two against each other in a life or death struggle, they would use any options at their disposal. Of course, the fighter could have an item that allowed him to fly and then the barbarian would have to come up with different tactics. There are just too many variables. If you take away most variables and force both of them to remain in a confined space and fight it out, the fighter will usually win (It still depends on the intelligence of the fighters, their tactics, and their rolls).

 

[RangerWickett]

Y'know, I'd never considered the old 'run away when they approach me' technique. How do you get around this? Fighter readies to dodge barbarian, so the barbarian could not attack, and just ready an action to run at the fighter and attack as soon as the fighter makes any move. So we get a stand-off, with two warriors just watching each other until one decides to move first . . . and then we'll roll for initiative like normal.

But if the barbarian is in a rage, he might not be that fast thinking. Could the barbarian do a move action, then ready a partial charge? Do we even still have those in 3.5?

 

[Stalker0]

Well I've actually run this scenario. I did it 20 times in actual combat, a 20th level fighter against a 20th level barb in an open battlefield. And the barb wins almost every time.

Granted this was in 3.0, certain fighter feats have gotten better since then but from actual experience the barb was the winner.

 

[jarlaxlecq]

Well I've actually run this scenario. I did it 20 times in actual combat, a 20th level fighter against a 20th level barb in an open battlefield. And the barb wins almost every time.

Granted this was in 3.0, certain fighter feats have gotten better since then but from actual experience the barb was the winner.

Could you explain what about the Barb made him win? cant say something like that without some supportign arguments

Ok and we mean straight Barb vs Straight Fighter, no PrC, as we want to compair the two classes. Also just the fighters and items no animals, so no mounted combat. and lastly no "I'll run away for 20 rounds and then finish him" If your going to be a man act like one

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I'd set it up core rules only, and no magical items. Then put them both in a gladiator pit. Seems to be the best way.