Higher level characters ONLY fight orcs

[RangerWickett]

Drizzt is supposed to be, like, 15th level.

 

[Dausuul]

Besides the lack of variety, it doesn't make you feel like you are getting tougher. The opposite, actually. In the tutorial area (or former one) you a starting character and here you were, mowing down goblins left and right. You felt heroic.

Then 50 levels later, you're in Moria, You're still fighting goblins. Only this time they are tougher. They disarm you every single fight (probably once a minute) so not only are the fights longer, they're more annoying. Rather than making more exciting and tougher monsters, they just gave them more hit points and a bunch of debuffs. Challenging? No. Fun? No. Quick and easy to do, yes.

But that's the point. In LotR Online, you're not fighting the same orcs you were at low level. You're fighting Treadmill Orcs that level up with you. This is, as you observe, stupid and lame. The goal of 5E is that you shouldn't need Treadmill Orcs to fight orcs at high level. You should be able to take on dozens of orcs, killing an orc with every swing, and feel like a supreme badass because these were the same monsters where you once struggled to defeat four of them.

I don't see why this is an issue for anybody. The game will still have giants and ogres and dragons and beholders and all that. If it wasn't obvious in context, WotC_Trevor has confirmed it in this very thread. Those who don't want to fight orcs at high level, don't have to. But for those who do want to sometimes (not always!) fight orcs at high level, the option will exist.

 

[Minigiant]

To me, it feels that they are flattening the attack/AC curve and balancing everything around HP and damage.

More specifically AOE, AVG, and MAX damage.

Lets say at level 4, an orcs has ~20 hp. The designers may have it set up where Average Damage is 10, AOE average damage is 6, and MAX combat PC under optimal conditions deals ~20 damage. This means it'll take 2-3 hits for a level 4 to kill an orc and one turn more if he uses pure area or attack. At level 4, a successful max sneak attack, 2nd level spell, or full power attack can OHKO an orc too.

But at level 13, AVG damage is ~25 and AOE is ~20. So every attack kills an orc and AOE kills orcs too.

MAX damage is overkill at ~70 damage. But you are fighting 160 hp giants now. AOE damage is too weak. No fireballs and. Whirlwind attack. Go for sneak attack and Disintegrate.

So 8 orcs =1 giant

Lots of weak low level goon: Long battle for parties without AOE PCs.
Few equal level standards: Long battle for parties without AVG PCs.
One big boss: Long battle for parties without MAX PCs.


This is how my homebrew D20 game works but with accuracy rather than damage. Fighting giants without high attack is suicide while goblins slaughter those without multipe attacks.

 

[frankthedm]

the fact that you've by now, easily committed a war-crime in the number of orcs you've killed.

Anyone else getting annoyed with attempts to inject modern morals into fantasy gaming?

 

[Wulfram]

What's really important for me isn't so much the orcs as it is regular humans (and elves etc). If they become no threat, it really cuts down on the stories you can tell.

 

[Henry]

Drizzt is supposed to be, like, 15th level.

That's also the book that turned me off enough that I didn't buy it and found the online cliff's notes to get the overview, instead.

 

[Blackwarder]

I think about it in DragonLance terms, early on you fight the broze dragon man (sorry been awhile since I read DragonLance and even then it wasn't in English (and by a while I mean 20 years ;p )) and they are a freaking challenge but as the characters grow more powerfull Baaz become an easier challenge, on the way the character encounter more powerfull version of those dragonman and as they move on those powerfull enemies become more mundane enemies, that doesn't say that by the end of their carriers Baaz are a none threat, they a simply the dangerous cannon fodder instead of the nearly solo monsters they were at the start of the game.

Couple that with some gear advancement for the monsters (a Baaz wearing leather armor vs one wearing full plate for example) and you can still use them for your entire campaign without having to restore to having a Baaz lvl1 and a Baaz lvl5 etc.

I think it's a great goal, one of the campaigns I always wanted to run was having the characters up against a huge Orc empire hell bent of achieving the utopian version of a world with only orcs in it and this stated goal will make my life much easier.

Edit: those dragon dudes are called draconian (amazingly enough the iPad autocorrect dictionary already know them... What a geek)

Warder

 

[ExploderWizard]

It seems to me that a flatter power scale just means more variety. If you want your campaign to move away from regular humanoids then you can. If you want humanoids to be the focus of a long campaign then you can have that too. It's a win-win.

Damage and hit points can handle scaling just fine. Unlimited numbers of anything being ineffective just kills immersion. Even the topmost level adventurer in the world should be concerned about facing 1000 orcs.

 

[avin]

I'm absolutely fine with fighting orcs at several levels. What's the matter? What's the problem with options...?

Nobody is forcing a DM to use orcs from level 1 to 20, instead, Wotc is giving a DM the option to use these orcs if the story being told demands.

 

[Sunseeker]

Anyone else getting annoyed with attempts to inject modern morals into fantasy gaming?

It's "modern" to think killing half the orcs in the world might not ne a good thing? Besides, it was just an example for numbers. That, and there was never a time when killing orcs was good or bad, since they aren't real.