[Hijack] Debate over definition of "grit." Plus: is Midnight gritty?

[jester47]

Ashram, Emiricol, Enceladus: You guys are pissing me off (Enceladus to a lesser degree).

You have posted ten post of just bikering in the last five minutes. Take your argument somewhere else. This is Tom's thread and so its Toms forum. Tom says that we are talking about ways to roll stats. You want to fight about Midnight, go outside.

Aaron.

 

[Umbran]

(How about a poll, in another thread: What does grit mean to YOU?)

Not a poll. Polls are digital - you have a few, clearly defined options, and are only particularly useful when there options are in reality clearly defined. part of the issue here is that "grit" isn't clearly defined.

Thus, a thread discussing the topic, rather than a poll, is in order.

Enceledus: By my way of thinking, you're descending into borderline insulting assessment of the character of posters, rather than actually discussing the topics. This isn't constructive, so please stop.

 

[jester47]

Are the stats listed in order? Like str/dex/con/int/wis/cha ? If so, I'm curious why you chose Sorcerer instead of a class that fit the stats better (if not, then I just misunderstood what you meant).

Well, this proves that you were to busy getting all hot headed to actually read the post. In it I listed the 3 declarations a player has to make when he rolls up a character. I try to hold myself to the same standards as I hold my players.

Aaron.

edit- stuff was plural that should not have been.

 

[Emiricol]

Ashram, Emiricol, Enceladus: You guys are pissing me off (Enceladus to a lesser degree).

You have posted ten post of just bikering in the last five minutes. Take your argument somewhere else. This is Tom's thread and so its Toms forum. Tom says that we are talking about ways to roll stats. You want to fight about Midnight, go outside.

Aaron.

Uh huh. Too bad. Lots of people are pissing me off, too. That's what happens when people like Mystery Man start rucking up crap, then other people chime in, and it snowballs.

Meanwhile, I'm the one who has (what, three times now?) tried to get this back on topic. So kiss off.

EDIT:

Well, this proves that you were to busy getting all hot headed to actually read the post. In it I listed the 3 declarations a players has to make when he rolls up a character. I try to hold myself to the same standards as I hold my players.

Aaron.

Looks like you are all hot headed too. Good. WTF did you have to add to the conversation? That's worse than trolling, that's like throwing chum in the waters. Get yerself back on topic, you want to preach to us.

 

[jester47]

Uh huh. Too bad. Lots of people are pissing me off, too. That's what happens when people like Mystery Man start rucking up crap, then other people chime in, and it snowballs.

Meanwhile, I'm the one who has (what, three times now?) tried to get this back on topic. So kiss off.

EDIT:



Looks like you are all hot headed too. Good. WTF did you have to add to the conversation? That's worse than trolling, that's like throwing chum in the waters. Get yerself back on topic, you want to preach to us.

1) forget mystery man
2) Good effort on trying to get it back on track, I am with you brother
3) I am just trying to reduce the static.
4) That was my only off topic post

What I said in my previous post to tom was that once the players declare the order they are rolling stats in, their characters race and class, they then roll. For the most part I hold them to the rolls, unless they are way too negative, or in very special circumstances the character that would result is unplayable as declared.

peace.

Aaron.

 

[Emiricol]

1) forget mystery man
2) Good effort on trying to get it back on track, I am with you brother
3) I am just trying to reduce the static.
4) That was my only off topic post

What I said in my previous post to tom was that once the players declare the order they are rolling stats in, their characters race and class, they then roll. For the most part I hold them to the rolls, unless they are way too negative, or in very special circumstances the character that would result is unplayable as declared.

peace.

Aaron.

Thank you. I missed that part, though I obviously read the post in detail enough to analyze the stat assignments. My real question was about what stat was what - whether they were in traditional order, or what. They aren't labelled, so I didn't know and so I asked.

This leads me to the question of why a high percentage of characters would pick classes for which they had little aptitude? The system would seem at first glance to give a good chance of this.

EDIT: By that I mean, why would Character X, the in-game person, choose to become a sorcerer when he is obviously more suited to more physical professions?

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

Tom says that we are talking about ways to roll stats.

According to the title of this thread, Tom also says we are talking about Midnight. That is, unless you now have the right to tell Tom what he wants his own thread to be about.

Even though I don't plan to continue with it, Midnight talk is now officially on topic.

 

[jester47]

Thank you. I missed that part, though I obviously read the post in detail enough to analyze the stat assignments. My real question was about what stat was what - whether they were in traditional order, or what. They aren't labelled, so I didn't know and so I asked.

This leads me to the question of why a high percentage of characters would pick classes for which they had little aptitude? The system would seem at first glance to give a good chance of this.

Yeah, they are in traditional order, and I did foret to mention that. I had the same misgivings about people in classes for which they had little aptitude, but then I looked at some literature and also in real life and realised that there are people in jobs that they are really bad at for a variety of reasons. So I figured why not do that in games too. This way you get the guy that really wants to be a wizard, but should be a fighter. Or the guy that wanted to be a rogue but was pushed into being a cleric by his family. More reasons for characterisation.

Aaron.

 

[Emiricol]

Yeah, they are in traditional order, and I did foret to mention that. I had the same misgivings about people in classes for which they had little aptitude, but then I looked at some literature and also in real life and realised that there are people in jobs that they are really bad at for a variety of reasons. So I figured why not do that in games too. This way you get the guy that really wants to be a wizard, but should be a fighter. Or the guy that wanted to be a rogue but was pushed into being a cleric by his family. More reasons for characterisation.

Aaron.

Your reasoning makes a lot of sense, really, though it is a bit harsh for my tastes Do you make them come up with a backstory to explain it?

 

[Gothmog]

Tom, I do think stats have a large part to do with a game feeling "grity". Supercharacters simply do not feel gritty in a gritty world- they feel like supermen lording their powers over peons (sort of like Vampire:tM). For a gritty game, I allow players to roll 4d6 for any three stats, and 3d6 for the others- with the dice allocation chosen before they roll. Its not guaranteed to give a good character, but they do have a little more control by "stacking the gene pool" in their favor for a better chance at a high stat.

As far as Midnight goes, as much as I love it, I don't think its really that gritty. Dark? Yes. Desperate? Definitely. While the characters in Midnight are not in a position to drive Izrador away, they can make a difference locally, or in an area. To me, Midnight is more dark heroic fantasy, but where there is a very real threat of total defeat if the characters are careless. Midnight could be run in a gritty fashion (which might be fun to try), but in gritty games the morality is ofen more gray than black and white, and Midnight characters are encouraged to be more heroic by default.