Mystery Man
First Post
Emiricol said:
Oh you really got me with that one.
Actually no ones really differed with my opinion yet.
You differ with mine though.
[Hijack] Debate over definition of "grit." Plus: is Midnight gritty?
- Thread starter Tom Cashel
- Start date
Oh you really got me with that one.
Actually no ones really differed with my opinion yet.
You differ with mine though.
jester47
First Post
Tom,
I have a method that actually does do what you want. I have found that the "grit" you speak of does not come from the bell curve, but rather holding the player to the stats he rolls and the order of the rolls. I use the 4d6 drop lowest, but the rolls have to be made in order as stated on the character sheet. Each player has to make 3 declarations before rolling begins:
1) What character sheet he/she will use. The NG 3.5 sheet has a different stat order and I allow people to use whatever char sheet they feel is the best. Not allowing rearrangement is essential.
2) The race of the character. No picking the race after you have rolled to boost a lower stat. You take what you get. Role with it!
3) The class of the character. Again, the key term here is "role with it." Your stats may be entirely in appropriate for the chosen class. How you overcome this is part of the fun.
When they have made their declarations, they then roll.
Now there is one thing that I allow them. In the PHB there is the rule that if the modifiers total -1 or less, then the player can reroll. I raise or lower this threshold. I have found that +2 gives the players somthing to work with, but does not make them too powerful. Here are some examples (from an NPC I was working on last night):
1/2 Elf Ranger
12 +1
13 +2
10 --
9 -1
6 -2
6 -2
7 -2
18 +4
12 +1
16 +3
12 +1
10 --
I stopped after the second set. Heres another example, I only rolled for this once:
Orc Sorcerer
14 +2
15 +2
13 +1
9 -1
8 -1
11 --
For this guy he is either gonna have to get a lot more charasmatic (NO ONE CALLS GROG UNCRASAMATIC!) or multiclass out. Though he can learn to do a lot if he takes metamagic feats. At 7th level this guy is still pretty dangerous with a mix of maximised, quickened and empowered spells. (28 points from a magic missile, and he can cast 2 in a round with one being quickened, thats 56 points!) And getting close to him might be a problem too. At 8th level its "Lightening bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightening bolt!"
Aaron.
I have a method that actually does do what you want. I have found that the "grit" you speak of does not come from the bell curve, but rather holding the player to the stats he rolls and the order of the rolls. I use the 4d6 drop lowest, but the rolls have to be made in order as stated on the character sheet. Each player has to make 3 declarations before rolling begins:
1) What character sheet he/she will use. The NG 3.5 sheet has a different stat order and I allow people to use whatever char sheet they feel is the best. Not allowing rearrangement is essential.
2) The race of the character. No picking the race after you have rolled to boost a lower stat. You take what you get. Role with it!
3) The class of the character. Again, the key term here is "role with it." Your stats may be entirely in appropriate for the chosen class. How you overcome this is part of the fun.
When they have made their declarations, they then roll.
Now there is one thing that I allow them. In the PHB there is the rule that if the modifiers total -1 or less, then the player can reroll. I raise or lower this threshold. I have found that +2 gives the players somthing to work with, but does not make them too powerful. Here are some examples (from an NPC I was working on last night):
1/2 Elf Ranger
12 +1
13 +2
10 --
9 -1
6 -2
6 -2
7 -2
18 +4
12 +1
16 +3
12 +1
10 --
I stopped after the second set. Heres another example, I only rolled for this once:
Orc Sorcerer
14 +2
15 +2
13 +1
9 -1
8 -1
11 --
For this guy he is either gonna have to get a lot more charasmatic (NO ONE CALLS GROG UNCRASAMATIC!) or multiclass out. Though he can learn to do a lot if he takes metamagic feats. At 7th level this guy is still pretty dangerous with a mix of maximised, quickened and empowered spells. (28 points from a magic missile, and he can cast 2 in a round with one being quickened, thats 56 points!) And getting close to him might be a problem too. At 8th level its "Lightening bolt! Lightning bolt! Lightening bolt!"
Aaron.
Emiricol
Registered User
Enceladus said:
Someone made a suggestion. Not OT, but not unforgiveably so. Then his perfectly reasonable post became an excuse to hijack the threat with how lame Midnight is. So, go flame the idiots who took this OT - you can do so by backtracking until you find the first troll, which would be by Mystery Man on page 1.
Just because you don't like Midnight doesn't mean trolls aren't effective.
Mystery Man said:
Oh you really got me with that one.
Actually no ones really differed with my opinion yet.
You differ with mine though.
Lots of people have, you troll. Meanwhile, the only people keeping this going is you. Can we please get back OT? You don't like Midnight. I get it. Let's move on. You have my permission to post your reply, since I know you won't be able to just leave it alone and get back OT. But I won't be replying to you anymore.
Last edited:
Ashrem Bayle
Explorer
Enceladus said:
If you don't like it, fine, nobody said you had to.
When people start posting information about a subject I care about, and the information they are posting is rediculously incorrect, I feel compelled to post a counter argument.
Forgive me for voicing my opinion on a public message board. Truely, I am the shame of my species.
Emiricol
Registered User
Enceladus said:Dude, chill.
Actually you're the one who's not letting it go. Chill out, you're starting to sound like a big fat baby.
NOW DOES THAT MAKE ME A TROLL?
No, but pretty silly. Replying to someone's rediculous post, while probably not productive, is hardly unexpected. Watch, I bet you reply.
Last edited:
Ashrem Bayle
Explorer
Just for the record.
Whether it was meant to or not, this thread has become about whether "grit" is defined by the characters "toughness' or the setting in which the character exist in.
If it is acceptable to use weakened Ability Scores as an example "toughness" then it should be acceptable to use Midnight as an example of a "gritty setting".
Its hard to have a fair debate when one side is rediculed for offering up evidence.
Replace "Midnight" with "Dark Sun" and you get the same argument. Midnight just happens to be a more recent and popular setting at the moment.
Whether it was meant to or not, this thread has become about whether "grit" is defined by the characters "toughness' or the setting in which the character exist in.
If it is acceptable to use weakened Ability Scores as an example "toughness" then it should be acceptable to use Midnight as an example of a "gritty setting".
Its hard to have a fair debate when one side is rediculed for offering up evidence.
Replace "Midnight" with "Dark Sun" and you get the same argument. Midnight just happens to be a more recent and popular setting at the moment.
jester47
First Post
Then again after taking into consideration that orcs get a -2 to cha, I think Grog might be out of a job. If this was a players character, as a DM I would let the player option to a Grey orc and change his declaration to wizard. This is in fact what I am going to have to do with the character. (rolled up last night with the other one) If he did not want to do that, I would have him reroll as his declaration hampered the stats and made the character declared mostly unplayable. And I am wrong about the metamagic feat stacking. Still, he would be playable with an Int of 11 as a Grey Orc Wizard.
A.
A.
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