• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

History, Mythology, Art and RPGs

EroGaki

First Post
Thanks for links and tips, guys. I appreciate it. :)

My questions were not actually linked to gaming; I've been set on writing a novel, and am deep in the research portion. I sort of skidded to a halt when I realized how difficult it is to find credible information about certain topics. It has been frustrating.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Galloglaich

First Post
Thanks for links and tips, guys. I appreciate it. :)

My questions were not actually linked to gaming; I've been set on writing a novel, and am deep in the research portion. I sort of skidded to a halt when I realized how difficult it is to find credible information about certain topics. It has been frustrating.

Ah... I know the feeling. The good side of this is, if my experience is any guide, starting to do that research will open up a whole new and fascinating world to you. The bad side is you have to explore some of that world to write your novel probably :)

What period / region are you focused on? We can probably recommend some more specific resources.

G.
 

EroGaki

First Post
Ah... I know the feeling. The good side of this is, if my experience is any guide, starting to do that research will open up a whole new and fascinating world to you. The bad side is you have to explore some of that world to write your novel probably :)

What period / region are you focused on? We can probably recommend some more specific resources.

G.

I'm focusing on the Persian Empire (550–330 BCE) as a time frame and setting. I plan on having a heavy Persian influence in the world of the story (dress, military, customs, language, etc).

Besides that, I realized that I know every little about ancient arms and armor, and how they were really used. For instance, I found out recently that warhammers were typically smaller than depicted in D&D, and used primarily on horseback (unless the source was wrong...).

In addition, I have a series lack of knowledge on ancient military and how they were used. There will be plenty of armies clashing.

So you see how in the dark I am at this point?
 

Galloglaich

First Post
Just wanted to post this excellent HEMA demonstration video from a group in Finland.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8dky4r3nOA"]http://www.youtube.com/v/b8dky4r3nOA[/ame]

Finns are kind of scary.

finland-demotivational-poster.jpg


EDIT: fixed the link, for some reason having a hard time editing on this forum lately...


G.
 
Last edited:

Galloglaich

First Post
I'm focusing on the Persian Empire (550–330 BCE) as a time frame and setting. I plan on having a heavy Persian influence in the world of the story (dress, military, customs, language, etc).

I'd highly recommend getting yourself a copy of Xenophon's Anabasis / The Ten Thousand

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Persian-Expedition-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140440070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260489050&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Persian Expedition (Penguin Classics) (9780140440072): Xenophon, Rex Warner, George Cawkwell: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Anabasis-March-Up-Country-Xenophon/dp/1934255033/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260489080&sr=1-2]Amazon.com: Anabasis: The March Up Country (9781934255032): Xenophon, H. G. Dakyns: Books[/ame]

And pick up one or two of these Osprey books

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Persian-Army-560-330-BC-Elite/dp/1855322501/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260489131&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: The Persian Army 560-330 BC (Elite) (9781855322509): Nicholas Sekunda, Simon Chew: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Greek-Persian-Wars-500-323-Men-at-Arms/dp/0850452716/ref=pd_sim_b_1]Amazon.com: The Greek and Persian Wars 500-323 BC (Men-at-Arms) (9780850452716): Jack Cassin-Scott: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Scythians-700-300-B-C-Men-Arms/dp/0850454786/ref=pd_sim_b_4]Amazon.com: Scythians 700-300 B.C. (Men at Arms Series, 137) (9780850454789): E.V. Cernenko, Angus McBride: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Sarmatians-600-BC-AD-450-Men-at-Arms/dp/184176485X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b]Amazon.com: The Sarmatians 600 BC-AD 450 (Men-at-Arms) (9781841764856): Richard Brzezinski, Gerry Embleton: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Romes-Enemies-Parthians-Sassanid-Men-at-Arms/dp/0850456886/ref=pd_sim_b_5]Amazon.com: Rome's Enemies (3): Parthians and Sassanid Persians (Men-at-Arms) (9780850456882): Peter Wilcox, Angus McBride: Books[/ame]

Besides that, I realized that I know every little about ancient arms and armor, and how they were really used. For instance, I found out recently that warhammers were typically smaller than depicted in D&D, and used primarily on horseback (unless the source was wrong...).

No, it's right. Nobody fought with sledge hammers as far as I've ever been able to determine, though there were a few wooden tent-stake mallets running around in some famous battles.

No dinner plate sized axes either.

In addition, I have a series lack of knowledge on ancient military and how they were used. There will be plenty of armies clashing.

So you see how in the dark I am at this point?

Yes but I wouldn't despair, we can get you up to speed pretty quick. Who are the Persians going to be fighting? Each other?

G.
 

Galloglaich

First Post
I'm focusing on the Persian Empire (550–330 BCE) as a time frame and setting. I plan on having a heavy Persian influence in the world of the story (dress, military, customs, language, etc).

Besides that, I realized that I know every little about ancient arms and armor, and how they were really used. For instance, I found out recently that warhammers were typically smaller than depicted in D&D, and used primarily on horseback (unless the source was wrong...).

In addition, I have a series lack of knowledge on ancient military and how they were used. There will be plenty of armies clashing.

So you see how in the dark I am at this point?

EroGaki,

If I was going to recommend one book to you to give you a very good, quick but accurate overview of warfare in the Classical world it would be this one, which I personally found immensely helpful:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Warfare-Classical-World-Encyclopedia-Civilisations/dp/0806127945/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260489750&sr=1-5]Amazon.com: Warfare in the Classical World: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Weapons, Warriors and Warfare in the Ancient Civilisations of Greece and Rome (9780806127941): John Gibson Warry: Books[/ame]

G.
 

EroGaki

First Post
Wow, thanks for the help. This will be a great start to the research. And christmas is coming up; now I have a few more things to add to the list.
 

Jack7

First Post
Gall, by this evening I should have a write up about the Byzantine Warrior Monk, and some related matters, ready to go. Over time it might get kinda involved. I didn't know if you wanted me to post it here or on my blog. I mean it's your thread and I don't wanna drive anything off-subject or put up a bunch of material you don't want cluttering up your thread.

So, just let me know how you wanna play it.

Jack.


I
f I was going to recommend one book to you to give you a very good, quick but accurate overview of warfare in the Classical world it would be this one, which I personally found immensely helpful:

Amazon.com: Warfare in the Classical World: An...

That was a good book Gall suggested.

When it comes to weapons and related matters EG, just remember, that generally speaking, it's nothing like fantasy gaming or films. When it comes to weapons, armor, equipment, shields, etc. remember that most soldiers had to hump that stuff around everywhere they went. Most combatants didn't ride horses which meant all of their equipment had to marched around, carried on their own bodies, many times including their own food and water (the biscuits carried around their necks by Roman soldiers for instance). Every ounce becomes real labor over time, if you need to be ready to form up and fight whenever necessary, when you're hard marching twenty miles a day or more every day in the field (sometimes regardless of weather), and you may be expected to build fortifications or lay defense lines, or put up tents and make a secure camp after that. (Plus you have to scout the terrain, reconnoiter, set watches, establish perimeters, locate water, maybe forage, gather and set supplies, place skirmishing lines, etc.)

Men can't afford to carry these ridiculous fantasy type weapons, you have to be practical in your methods and equipment. Weapons have to be fast and effective and actually lethal according to the style of warfare common at the time, not pretty and fancy and ridiculous in design and hard to use. (That's why the Spanish Gladius was such a truly effective weapon for so long, it was just such an effective and efficient killing device. Far more effective than far larger and heavier weapons.)

In my opinion if your novel intends to be realistic (and that may or may not be your intent) then just remember this simple rule, make things efficient, make them effective, and make them practical. Remember people have to march in whatever they use as defense and armoring, they have to march mostly by foot at least some of the time, everything carried is real weight hauled by someone or some beast for potentially long periods of time, weapons have to be efficient killing tools, equipment has to serve truly useful purposes, food and water is no easy commodity to obtain, store, and transport, and logistical problems kill many armies and empires over time.

May I also suggest books like this:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Ancient-Medieval-Siege-Weapons-Illustrated/dp/1592287107/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-12]Amazon.com: Ancient and Medieval Siege Weapons: A Fully Illustrated Guide to Siege Weapons and Tactics (9781592287109): Konstantin Nossov: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Weapon-Visual-History-Arms-Armor/dp/0756622107/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: Weapon: A Visual History of Arms and Armor (9780756622107): DK Publishing: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/New-Weapons-World-Encyclopedia-International/dp/0312368321/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-3]Amazon.com: The New Weapons of the World Encyclopedia: An International Encyclopedia from 5000 B.C. to the 21st Century (9780312368326): Diagram Group: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Warrior-Visual-History-Fighting-Man/dp/075663203X/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-8]Amazon.com: Warrior: A Visual History of the Fighting Man (9780756632038): R. G. Grant: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Weapons-International-Encyclopedia-D-Updated/dp/0312039506/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-6]Amazon.com: Weapons: An International Encyclopedia From 5000 B.C. to 2000 A.D., Updated Edition (9780312039509): Diagram Group: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Arms-Armor-DK-Eyewitness-Books/dp/0756606543/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260635374&sr=1-7]Amazon.com: Arms & Armor (DK Eyewitness Books) (0690472006541): Michele Byam: Books[/ame]


Just remember though, people have to design, construct, and carry around stuff like this. By nature and purpose these things have to be practical, efficient, and effective. It ain't like the movies.

You might get a feel for this by loading up a 60 to 70 pound pack and going for about a five to ten mile hike through the woods, or whatever terrain is common to your area, just make it tough terrain. Nothing gives you a feel for reality like actually doing a thing. then imagine doing that or more every day for weeks and having to build defines, get food and water and wood for fires, etc.

It shows why things were the way they were. Which were very gritty and practical.
 

Galloglaich

First Post
This is an interesting excerpt, an anecdote of Medieval Warfare highlighting the effectiveness of mail armor:

[FONT=&quot]“By this time the vanguard of the Frankish horsemen had reached me, so I retired before them, turning back my lance in their direction and my eyes toward them lest some one of their horse should prove to quick for me and pierce me with his lance. In front of me were some of our companions, and we were surrounded by gardens with walls as high as a sitting man. My mare hit wit it’s breast one of our companions, so I turned it’s head to the left and applied the spurs to it’s sides, whereupon it leaped over the wall. I so regulated my position until I stood on a level with the Franks. The wall only separated us. One of their horsemen hastened to me, displaying his colors in a green and yellow silk tunic, under which I thought was no coat of mail. I therefore let him alone until he passed me. Then I applied my spurs to my mare, which leapt over the wall, and I smote him with the lance. He bent sideways so much that his head reached the stirrup, his shield and lance fell off his hand, and his helmet off his head. By that time we had reached our infantry. He then resumed his position, erect in the saddle. Having had linked mail under his tunic, my lance did not wound him. His companions caught up to him, all returned together, and the footman recovered his shield, lance, and helmet.” [/FONT]
-An Arab-Syrian Gentleman and Warrior in the period of the Crusades. Usamah Ibn-Minqidh, 12th Century AD

I'm reading this book right now, it has a bunch of cool anecdotes like that, I'm going to post a few more of those here over the next few days.
 
Last edited:

Matthew_

First Post
Yeah, that is a good book; the whole Crusade Texts in Translation series is a great resource, and there are some very interesting, and sometimes unexpected, nuggets to be found.
 

Remove ads

Top