D&D 5E Hit points explained

[robus]

DM explains
if they make the save .. the arrow barely misses the player and the poison was never delivered, but the player is a bit more tired because they dodged out of the way just in time. The next one might be their last!

if they fail the save ... the arrow nicked the player .. small scratch but "oh no it's a poison arrow!"

But success on a poison save means half the poison damage is inflicted surely?

From the Giant Poisonous Snake stat block in the MM (pg 327):

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: ... target must make a DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 10 (3d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

I believe it's the same with all poison weapon attacks.

 

[snickersnax]

I always see HPs as an abstraction, your combat skill, dodge, parry, sometimes even dumb luck.

I.E. two 1st level characters; lvl1 barbarian with 12 con and lvl1 wizard with 12 con. 13 HP vs 7 HP. I doubt that being barbarian gives you almost double the meat/fat to cleave through until you get to vital organs. Especially as they both have 12 constitution.

Barbarian simply knows how to turn a hit that would cleave your head off into glancing blow or a parry.

OK, so my character Rosencrantz decides to test this theory. He successfully casts hold person on both the LvL 1 barbarian and the LVL 1 wizard, eliminating all combat skills, dodges, parries. Then he takes a shortsword and chops each of the two. Both are autocrits, because of the hold person. 50% of the time he will kill the wizard (average 7 hp of damage), He will never be able to kill the barbarian in a single hit (max 12 points of damage).

Conclusion: Barbarian has almost double the meat.

 

[snickersnax]

I believe it's the same with all poison weapon attacks.

Poison, Basic. You can use the poison in this vial
to coat one slashing or piercing weapon or up to three
pieces o f ammunition. Applying the poison takes
an action. A creature hit by the poisoned w eapon or
ammunition must make a DC 10 Constitution saving
throw or take 1d4 poison damage. Once applied, the
poison retains potency for 1 minute before drying. PHB p 153

 

[Uchawi]

Imagine your mind as a desert oasis when considering hit points and whatever happens in your head stays in your head. As soon as you share your thoughts the vacation is over.

 

[Shasarak]

Hit points explained

Oh man, this is going to be good.

 

[Lanefan]

OK, so my character Rosencrantz decides to test this theory. He successfully casts hold person on both the LvL 1 barbarian and the LVL 1 wizard, eliminating all combat skills, dodges, parries. Then he takes a shortsword and chops each of the two. Both are autocrits, because of the hold person. 50% of the time he will kill the wizard (average 7 hp of damage), He will never be able to kill the barbarian in a single hit (max 12 points of damage).

Conclusion: Barbarian has almost double the meat.

In a case like this, assuming no other interruptions, shouldn't any such attack be auto-kill no matter how many h.p. the victim had, if killing was the intent?

Otherwise you end up with the ridiculous situation where someone potentially has to chop away round after round at an absolutely defenseless person, where all it should really take is slitting the held person's throat. It gets even nuttier if the held person is higher level and has, say, 43 h.p. instead of just 10.

I can see it if this is happening in mid-combat and Rosencrantz has to defend himself against another attacker while still chopping at the held people. But if the only people involved are Rosie and his victims and Rosie is standing there with sword in hand against two defenseless targets he should be able to auto-kill them one per round, in effect bypassing their hit points altogether.

Lan-"and this is why hold person is such a useful spell for both the PCs and their foes"-efan

 

[snickersnax]

In a case like this, assuming no other interruptions, shouldn't any such attack be auto-kill no matter how many h.p. the victim had, if killing was the intent?

Otherwise you end up with the ridiculous situation where someone potentially has to chop away round after round at an absolutely defenseless person, where all it should really take is slitting the held person's throat. It gets even nuttier if the held person is higher level and has, say, 43 h.p. instead of just 10.

I can see it if this is happening in mid-combat and Rosencrantz has to defend himself against another attacker while still chopping at the held people. But if the only people involved are Rosie and his victims and Rosie is standing there with sword in hand against two defenseless targets he should be able to auto-kill them one per round, in effect bypassing their hit points altogether.

Lan-"and this is why hold person is such a useful spell for both the PCs and their foes"-efan

Rosencrantz is a wizard. He's not even proficient with a shortsword. The best he can do is get an auto hit and crit. Besides coup-de-grace would ruin the test and there are no coup-de-grace rules in 5e anyway.

 

[Caliban]

Rosencrantz is a wizard. He's not even proficient with a shortsword. The best he can do is get an auto hit and crit. Besides coup-de-grace would ruin the test and there are no coup-de-grace rules in 5e anyway.

There kinda are - if you are already at 0 HP, taking damage is an auto-failed death save, and a crit is two failed death saves.

So walking up to a person who is already at 0 HP and stabbing them would be two failed death saves - regardless of the actual damage or their total HP. (Unless you do enough damage on a crit to insta-kill them. Anything less is two failed death saves.)

 

[Wrathamon]

But success on a poison save means half the poison damage is inflicted surely?

From the Giant Poisonous Snake stat block in the MM (pg 327):



I believe it's the same with all poison weapon attacks.

Depends on the system you are playing (as I mentioned) but again it's the results that describe the action not the action describing the results. This might also be why half damage on saves wasn't an AD&D thing (it might have been i just don't remember... i'm old now)

to explain half damage on saves ...

you're nicked by an arrow but not all the poison got into your system to kill you or disable you, but you feel a little worse for ware. You could also handwave it completely. You are hit by an arrow and failed the poison save but still have lots of HP. The arrow with the poison would have surely killed you if it struck you as you see the arrow barely miss your face as the poison drips off the tip. You made your save and you have lots of Hit points... You could also say an arrow struck you in the leg but the poison wasnt applied very well or luck would have it wasnt very strong dose. What doesnt make sense for me (or at least for most characters ... barbarians excluded) is I'm standing here with 25 arrows sticking out of my chest all dripping with poison, but let me rest for a bit and I'll be all good. That isn't the system fault or hp fault. Its describing what happened fault.

anyways this is a decades long discussion that I dont think will ever have a conclusion. It will be on going and spur people to create new systems that make sense to them, that others will not get or they will.

 

[Wrathamon]

OK, so my character Rosencrantz decides to test this theory. He successfully casts hold person on both the LvL 1 barbarian and the LVL 1 wizard, eliminating all combat skills, dodges, parries. Then he takes a shortsword and chops each of the two. Both are autocrits, because of the hold person. 50% of the time he will kill the wizard (average 7 hp of damage), He will never be able to kill the barbarian in a single hit (max 12 points of damage).

Conclusion: Barbarian has almost double the meat.

Didn't it take more than one swing from Negan's Lucille to kill Abraham? He was a barbarian I think