D&D 5E Hit points explained

[Yunru]

Nah, we know what HP are. Gygax explained them well enough to us long before you were born. Go read a 1e DMG.
We just really didn't want that stupid 4e garbage of rewarding failure to make it into the next edition.
You want to do damage to a target with your sword or whatever? Roll high enough.
If you don't roll high enough? Suck up your failure this round & try again next round.

Fireball begs to differ (along with all the other damage on a "miss" spells).

 

[Blue]

We've also seen a lot where foe HPs are often considered more "meaty" and actual damage then character HPs. Especially when you start to look at things like resistance.

HPs are just nebulous, I think trying to lock it down somewhat defeats the purpose in that it will not be as flexible to describe the narrative of what's happening. If your PC is bitten by a venomous snake and acquires the Poisoned condition, it'll likely be described as a bite regardless if you have full HPs less than a quarter, because the narrative requires a successful bite to deliver the condition.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Nah, we know what HP are. Gygax explained them well enough to us long before you were born. Go read a 1e DMG.
We just really didn't want that stupid 4e garbage of rewarding failure to make it into the next edition.
You want to do damage to a target with your sword or whatever? Roll high enough.
If you don't roll high enough? Suck up your failure this round & try again next round.

Clearly in his desire to insult people, he cares little for accuracy. Obviously HP were clearly defined as more than just meat in the PHB in 1979 (see my earlier post), so no, that isn't something grognards are arguing against. Grognards (like myself) have been fully aware HP are more than just meat since the beginning.

Fireball begs to differ (along with all the other damage on a "miss" spells).

That doesn't make sense. Fireball damage isn't damage on a miss. Fail your save? You get the whole things. Miss it? Well, you either dodged it completely, or you dodged it enough to only take partial damage. Which makes perfect sense with anything that is AoE or splash

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The only consistent answer is that every successful hit must definitionally make contact of some sort. How hard it hits, and how grievous the injury caused, is the only thing left to debate.

You can't possibly have a successful hit that causes damage without making contact, though. That way lies madness.

 

[Yunru]

That doesn't make sense. Fireball damage isn't damage on a miss. Fail your save? You get the whole things. Miss it? Well, you either dodged it completely, or you dodged it enough to only take partial damage. Which makes perfect sense with anything that is AoE or splash

And anything that is "dodgable". Such as a weapon.
Here, I'll use your words.

Sword Attack! damage isn't damage on a miss. Pass your AC? You get the whole things. Miss it? Well, you either dodged it completely, or you dodged it enough to only take partial damage.

There, with very few minor tweaks is exactly how DOAM weapons work.

 

[Sacrosanct]

And anything that is "dodgable". Such as a weapon.
Here, I'll use your words.

Sword Attack! damage isn't damage on a miss. Pass your AC? You get the whole things. Miss it? Well, you either dodged it completely, or you dodged it enough to only take partial damage.

There, with very few minor tweaks is exactly how DOAM weapons work.

I don't think you're getting the difference between a point attack, and an AOE affect. They are not the same. I.e, it's feasible to avoid a sword strike pretty easy in the mind's eye. It's not really feasible to avoid an entire area that gets blasted (outside of some magical assistance). If you're in the AoE, something will most likely happen. Therefore, something like a fireball and a sword are two completely different things. And the "dodged the blade but still took partial damage" is what happens when the attacker hits, but rolls low on the damage dice. If it misses, it misses. AoE don't have to hit directly like a sword does to do damage. It's the whole point of being AoE

 

[Yunru]

I don't think you're getting the difference between a point attack, and an AOE affect. They are not the same. I.e, it's feasible to avoid a sword strike pretty easy in the mind's eye. It's not really feasible to avoid an entire area that gets blasted (outside of some magical assistance). If you're in the AoE, something will most likely happen. Therefore, something like a fireball and a sword are two completely different things. And the "dodged the blade but still took partial damage" is what happens when the attacker hits, but rolls low on the damage dice. If it misses, it misses. AoE don't have to hit directly like a sword does to do damage. It's the whole point of being AoE

No, they are the same. You know ehat the only difference is? One has a Dex save and the other an AC.

To, again, use your words:
And the "dodged the blast but still took partial damage" is what happens when the saving throw fails, but rolls low on the damage dice. If it misses, it misses. Swords don't have to hit fully like a lightning bolt does to do damage. It's the whole point of being a sword.

There is no dissonance other than in your justification of it.

 

[Sacrosanct]

No, they are the same. You know ehat the only difference is? One has a Dex save and the other an AC.

To, again, use your words:
And the "dodged the blast but still took partial damage" is what happens when the saving throw fails, but rolls low on the damage dice. If it misses, it misses. Swords don't have to hit fully like a lightning bolt does to do damage. It's the whole point of being a sword.

There is no dissonance other than in your justification of it.

Once again, for the last time. If you have a point attack coming at you, it can miss you completely, or you can dodge it completely. Ergo, an attack roll. If you are in an area of effect and can't get out, you WILL suffer something. Because it's AOE that impacts everything in that area. That's the point of an AOE. There is no "missing" there compared to a point attack. That is a HUGE difference. It's why it IS a DEX save as opposed to an attack roll, because it's a completely different attack type.

 

[Satyrn]

The thing that bugs me is why do I have to reduce a target to zero hit points to knock them out? If HP is measuring your ability to take blows (by actively dodging, deflecting etc) then knocking someone out should be much easier (if the circumstances are right of course).

Which is why I've home-ruled that it's a STR vs CON opposed check. Disadvantage if the target is larger and advantage if the target is smaller.

So if someone wants to sneak up and knock a guard out that's all they have to do. Of course if they fail then combat will most likely break out but at least they have a decent chance of succeeding without requiring an extended combat.

Aye. That's totally the kind of thing I try to do when the players attempt something the combat rules won't work for.

 

[Yunru]

Once again, for the last time. If you have a point attack coming at you, it can miss you completely, or you can dodge it completely. Ergo, an attack roll. If you are in an area of effect and can't get out, you WILL suffer something. Because it's AOE that impacts everything in that area. That's the point of an AOE. There is no "missing" there compared to a point attack. That is a HUGE difference. It's why it IS a DEX save as opposed to an attack roll, because it's a completely different attack type.

Except that point attack is already in your space. There is no dodge, only partial deflection or full damage.