Holiday Present - The Elf PHB entry

[Lackhand]

I agree. However, why the change at all? Of course, I have the same question about so many of the flavour/fluff changes for 4E that the real question for me has become "Why change at all" and the answer is "Don't."

You should change back if you like the old way more (assuming that the new system entices enough to tempt you!), but it helps me justify to myself why there are level 1 elves.

Or maybe more like why there are elves with a Knowledge(History) check of under +30.

But if they new system doesn't appeal, of course, you shouldn't switch!

 

[Imaro]

If there are DMs that can't arbitrarily change the lifespan of an elf to suit their campaigns, I weep for their players.

I just want to say, this model of thiking irritates me to no end. How do you judge the merits of a game if the answer is always "just change it.". By this logic there's no reason to pick any one specific roleplaying game over another. Exalted is D&D...just change it to a d20 system, remove charms and replace them with feats and play in Forgotten Realms instead of creation???

The elven age thing is perhaps a simple case, but I've seen this argument toted out every time someone doesn't like something and it really doesn't address any issue at all. Part of the money I spend on the core rulebooks goes towards fluff and if I don't think it's good fluff then just change it doesn't really focus on why it's not good fluff or why it was included/changed in the first place.

NOTE: I personally have no problem with the new age of elves, but I see this in every post where someone doesn't like something. I bought Exalted because I liked the fluff and a game that doesn't capture me with it's fluff is probably not going to be bought by me.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Re: Anorexic elves.

Legolas walked on snow.

 

[Aristotle]

I like it...

As for the group "aura". I see it as the scene where the elf stops in his tracks and starts to scan the horizon, and everyone nearby does the same hoping to see what has the elf so wound up. That's how I'm going to play it. You only get the perception buff if the elf is using perception.

As for movement in squares. They will almost certainly be 5 foot squares, so just convert. It's simple math. The honest truth is, whether minis or basic counters are being used, battle mats and tiles (and similar products) are being used really heavily these days and folks really like having a visual element that allows everyone in the group to understand where they are in relation to their environment. I usually use a mat. I run without one sometimes. When I go without one I'll multiply by 5. Not an issue.

I can't judge the scaling level of powers and feats until I see a bunch more. It stands to reason that some will be viewed as inferior, even if they are supposed to be balanaced. I also don't know that a freebie power that you start play with should be as powerful as those you purchase. A +2 to one attack roll, once per encounter, doesn't seem huge by 3E standards but I'll hold judgment until I see the combat mechanic and know for sure how big or small a deal an extra +2 is under 4E rules.

 

[Lackhand]

I just want to say, this model of thiking irritates me to no end. How do you judge the merits of a game if the answer is always "just change it.". By this logic there's no reason to pick any one specific roleplaying game over another. Exalted is D&D...just change it to a d20 system, remove charms and replace them with feats and play in Forgotten Realms instead of creation???

The elven age thing is perhaps a simple case, but I've seen this argument toted out every time someone doesn't like something and it really doesn't address any issue at all. Part of the money I spend on the core rulebooks goes towards fluff and if I don't think it's good fluff then just change it doesn't really focus on why it's not good fluff or why it was included/changed in the first place.

NOTE: I personally have no problem with the new age of elves, but I see this in every post where someone doesn't like something. I bought Exalted because I liked the fluff and a game that doesn't capture me with it's fluff is probably not going to be bought by me.

A good point.

But there's a continuum of annoyance, and I think what the comments you're complaining about represent are a different level of personal importance or investment.

I know that I see a lot of comments on the boards and think -- but hopefully, not always reply -- "just change it". This is because the change seems trivial and I like the new way more, or have made similar changes in the past with no problems.

Elf age seems a perfect example of this: age informs exactly 0 mechanics, at least currently, and the fluff here still seems to be "long lived", which means you're not going to change anything in ways you wouldn't have to cover anyway.

Gnome exclusion seems like another one, from my POV, because I can always just use halfling stats with exactly as much mechanical precision as we've had in previous editions. However, to gnome partisans (worst. Polearm. Ever.), it's a much bigger deal.

I'm sorry that I don't understand some of the things that bother you, Internet. Still friends?

 

[Black_Swan]

As a counterbalance it would be great to see a PC race that's really fat. I mean frickin huge. 500lbs and none of it is muscle. Wonder how many people would want to play em.

I always wanted to play a huge fat necromancer that had his undead minions do everything for him.

As for the elf entry I think I like it.

I'm not sure, I'll have to see more.

 

[Reynard]

You should change back if you like the old way more (assuming that the new system entices enough to tempt you!), but it helps me justify to myself why there are level 1 elves.

Or maybe more like why there are elves with a Knowledge(History) check of under +30.

But if they new system doesn't appeal, of course, you shouldn't switch!

Elves in particular are a Tolkienesque element and they don't really make much sense out of the context of Middle Earth, or at least a setting that emulates Middle Earth in many ways. That said, there are some elements of 4E that seem they will actually make doing Tolkienesque fantasy easier than other editions -- so long as certain elements can be easily excised from either the system or the flavour, as applicable.

 

[Lackhand]

Reynard: No argument here. I like having the *statistics* for elves available outside of Middle Earth, though: something human-like but alien, a magical long-lived forest-bonded fey race.

Given my username: The Sithi from the Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series, for instance.

Elves qua Elves make the most sense in Middle Earth, but they're often pretty easy and worth it to transplant.

 

[Fifth Element]

True... but a long-term nutrition shortage the type you'd see in the middle-ages stunts growth, not the height/weight relation. So if food is scarce in elven-country, they should be shorter, not necessarily so much thinner.

If food is scarce in elven-country, they get their clerics to create some food magically...

Elves are clearly intended to simply be slimmer than humans.

 

[Intrope]

Last year summer, I weighted 63 kg for 1.77 meter. That's 138 pounds for 5,88 feet. And I was not anorexiac at all nor in bad health. So an "alien" race weighting 130 pounds for 6 feet ? I don't have any problems with that, especialy if they have hollow bones or this kind of stuff.

Heh: when I went to college (too many years ago) I was 6' 2" & 150 lb. Now, I wasn't very muscular, but I was hardly anorexic!