Holy sheepdip - wotc to republish old editions

[Agamon]

Several of the above posts demonstrate (but don't "prove") something I suspect is true: with respect to formats, the market is nowhere near unified. To make everyone happy, they need to provide a whole stack of formats, and producing and maintaining such can be a hefty overhead for the business.

Thus, expect them to make a choice, and that a bunch of us will not be pleased with their choice.

Exactly. This has been my fundamental point, as well. They've pulled the pdfs and have an online distribution set up already with DDI. Even those that don't like it must see that it is what makes the most sense.

 

[FreeXenon]

Several of the above posts demonstrate (but don't "prove") something I suspect is true: with respect to formats, the market is nowhere near unified. To make everyone happy, they need to provide a whole stack of formats, and producing and maintaining such can be a hefty overhead for the business.

Thus, expect them to make a choice, and that a bunch of us will not be pleased with their choice.

Could someone give Umbran some XP for me.

I think you have a great point here... unless they can find a service that can do format conversions on the fly.

 

[I'm A Banana]

For some things a digital service is alright. I would never do a digital subscription for music but for movies I obviously do. For access to books for my RPG's though? HELL NO. If I'm spending money for an RPG or RPG related material I WANT IT. If the subscription service allows you to download the material then that's different, but read only access is a deal breaker.

This describes my view. For me, subscription services are largely fine for things I can get cheaper that way (Netflix, though it's always questionable), or things that continually produce new content (DDI or Pathfinder or my dead tree NatGeo subscription -- and even DDI only wins me over because I don't consider it very "valuable," so I don't care too much of I loose it).

For unchanging content that I need to be able to use repeatedly (like music or RPG books), a subscription model is useless for me. I need to be able to reference these things in the future, to call them up at-will, and to enjoy them at my leisure, not just when I'm financially stable enough and my internet connection isn't down.

An iTunes or Steam (or Pathfinder) model would sell me. 99 cents for a pdf or a game? I'm in, just as I'm in for 99 cents for an MP3. Even up to probably $5 for big 300 page things, not a problem. Not for a copy-protected gimp of a file that I can only use on certain pre-approved devices, but for a real file to do with as I please, aside from breaking laws.

Because unlike a movie or 4e material, I would plan to use this more than once.

 

[Agamon]

I'm trying to figure out what I can do with an RPG book besides read/reference it....

 

[Umbran]

When John Bonham passed away, ATLANTIC didn't discontinue all Led Zeppelin albums. When Robert Plant did solo work, they didn't. When Jimmy Page does solo work, they don't.

In fact, sales of one helps drive the other.

Yes, but that's a horrible analogy. Listening to Led Zepplin doesn't require nearly the same level of coordination, devotion of person-hours, or expense as playing a typical RPG. A person can have many, many more active albums of music in their lives than they can active RPGs.

 

[Dark Mistress]

Could someone give Umbran some XP for me.

I think you have a great point here... unless they can find a service that can do format conversions on the fly.

XPed.

 

[TheYeti1775]

They need to not do "Hollywood Records reissues" though; back in the early 90s when Hollywood Records secured the QUEEN back-catalog and started re-releasing it they clogged up the CDs with 12" remix this and special guest artist version that. Granted, I can press SKIP TRACK but that still bugs me.

On the other hand, if they do do that, but tell us up-front, and the "extra stuff" (e.g., "here's Nosnra for 4e") is in removable form, e.g., a "conversion booklet" that I can set aside, that's fine.

I just don't wanna buy a copy of say, I2 TOMB OF THE LIZARD KING and find out that it's twice as thick and the map is "reimagined" for 4ENCOUNTERS! or any garbage like that - as long as they say so up front if they're going to do that...

[/QUOTE]
Actually I wouldn't mind them doing that. Remember Reverse Engineering works both ways. How many of the old module sales might be driven by such conversion entries. If they have to appeal to the greatest amount possible than even a purist would recognize it as just bonus material to the original product. Your original is still there just with the notes for someone that wants the newest edition mind ot it.

The older material will probably just be rented through DDI.

So... the plan is to allow someone to 'rent' the old material via DDi?

Meaning I would first need a DDi account and then pay extra to access the old material for a limited time?

Nor would I.
I don't get DDI now much like I don't subscribe here.
When I purchase something I want it as a whole, weather it's a PDF or a hardcopy.
Now if they were requiring a DDI Subscription to access a storefront that allowed the purchase of a PDF or Print On Demand, that I could understand and get behind.

DO NOT WANT!

But if I can purchase older RPG boxed sets, books, and modules from them in either pdf or physical form I will happily be a customer.

Same here.

I, on the other hand, think it's a great idea. Buy a bunch of older books that I may or may not use, or have access to all of them for a fee?

And while it'd obviously be above and beyond the DDI subscription, I'm guessing it wouldn't require it (why would you need access to 4e stuff if you're getting access to the older stuff?)

Because the business model is still push as much towards the current edition as possible even when selling the prior edition stuff.

I hear this a lot (especially from gamers) but I think this attitude towards subscription-based services is going to have to die out. I'm willing to bet that, slowly but surely, people are going to start realizing two things:

1. Subscription services have become reliable and long-lived enough that they are functionally (if not financially) indistinguishable from owning whatever it is you're "renting".

2. Subscription services are typically (much) more cost-effective than purchasing whatever it is that they offer piecemeal, especially subscription services that regularly add new material, increasing their value on an ongoing basis.

The reality is that when people ask themselves "Is my life going to be more enjoyable as a subscriber?" the answer is more and more frequently going to be "Yes," whether it's a subscription to Netflix, D&D Insider, Spotify, or something that hasn't been invented yet.

You have sound points but I counteract it with this:
When you subscribe you expect regular updates with the purchase.
Hence, Enworld's giveaways etc, or DDI Updates.
Are they going to seriousily update a prior edition of D&D? I think we can all agree that isn't going to happen.


Dream:
They have hardcovers available, this could even be in collector sets.
(i.e. The Core PHB/DMG/MMI as a single book. Groups of modules as single hardcovers. etc.)
Includes it's own Character Builder, etc. (Like I said before that would gurantee my own subscription.)

Hope for at least:
PDF's with Print on Demand Options for all older material.

Acceptable:
Purchases have to be made behind DDI Subscription. Their own little Pirate Control. It's a headache but livable.

Unacceptable:
Subscribe to use.
If that's the case, I'll just stick to my bad scans and material already on the shelf in my home.

-----------------------------------------
Other:
Someone mentioned how the WotC folks couldn't understand how a D&D Fan couldn't also have to be a WotC Fan.
It's easy to surmise.
The game itself never left us. Yes in our eyes, WotC did save D&D from being a footnote on the logs of history.
But that doesn't mean since it's 'saving' that WotC didn't morph into something we didn't like.
I'm very much a D&D fan. Just the direction they(WotC) took in recent years, had me parting ways and joining ranks of 'grognards'. I didn't even go with the Pathfinger, I just simply looked and said I have enough to last me and groups to play with that were of a similar vein.
It's really that simple.
I was still a WotC customer, buying a PDF here and there. Even to buying the Star Wars SE along with miniatures for both D&D and Star Wars.
But each of those are now discontinued.
So I ended up joining the ranks of former WotC customers.
All my current purchases are on the secondary markets.

WotC can have me as a fan and customer again the bridge wasn't burned, but it is in a state of disrepair that I don't really feel like driving over.

 

[Dannager]

You have sound points but I counteract it with this:
When you subscribe you expect regular updates with the purchase.
Hence, Enworld's giveaways etc, or DDI Updates.
Are they going to seriousily update a prior edition of D&D? I think we can all agree that isn't going to happen.

Actually, I was imagining that the subscription service would start out with a certain set of books (the WotC guys are planning on starting with a subscription to just the Eberron stuff) and that online library of previous edition books would be expanded over time as content is digitized and approved. So the amount of content available to you via subscription would increase over the length of your subscription, increasing its value on a month-to-month basis.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'm trying to figure out what I can do with an RPG book besides read/reference it....

You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it. There's RPG-kabobs, RPG creole, RPG gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple RPG, lemon RPG, coconut RPG, pepper RPG, RPG soup, RPG stew, RPG salad, RPG and potatoes, RPG burger, RPG sandwich.

 

[Mournblade94]

I have a Netflix account.


If I stop paying for a service, I stop receiving service. That makes sense. But if I pay for a physical or digital product that sits on my shelf or on my HD (backed up on several HD's. HD space IS cheaper than real space. At least here in NYC it is...) I can access it as much as I want simply by pulling it off my shelf or pulling it up on my MacBook Pro, MacPro or iPad.

For some things a digital service is alright. I would never do a digital subscription for music but for movies I obviously do. For access to books for my RPG's though? HELL NO. If I'm spending money for an RPG or RPG related material I WANT IT. If the subscription service allows you to download the material then that's different, but read only access is a deal breaker.

Right I have XBOX live. I BOUGHT (Not rented) BIG BANG THEORY. Payed $27.00. CBS pulled the licensing and they could no longer have BIG BANG THEORY on XBOX LIVE. I LOST all the content i payed for for 6 months.

In fairness I have access to it now. But I no longer trust buying things off of these sites, and renting the space. I treat DDI in the same light. I have NETFLIX, and I do not expect to own anything from it. But I did not have to go buy the movies I am streaming either.

Renting game material on DDI is not something I am willing to do.