Holy sheepdip - wotc to republish old editions

[Mournblade94]

Exactly. This has been my fundamental point, as well. They've pulled the pdfs and have an online distribution set up already with DDI. Even those that don't like it must see that it is what makes the most sense.

But if the situation is like Mike Mearls says, and they are trying to get some of the grognards back (which I do beleive they are), they might see that DDI is not the way to go.

My gaming dollars will not go to DDI. WOTC does not care about MY gaming dollars alone, but Grognards have pretty serious purchase power.

I am happy to withhold that from a format i do not like.

 

[IronWolf]

Actually, I was imagining that the subscription service would start out with a certain set of books (the WotC guys are planning on starting with a subscription to just the Eberron stuff) and that online library of previous edition books would be expanded over time as content is digitized and approved. So the amount of content available to you via subscription would increase over the length of your subscription, increasing its value on a month-to-month basis.

The issue is that some of us want to purchase it and know we will have access to it in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, etc. We do not have that guarantee with a subscription model. Either they could change their mind, they could decide DDI isn't the way to go or WotC could be sold and the new owner does not want to support that means of access.

As for more content being available, that doesn't matter for many. Say they start with Eberron and then add Forgotten Realms. If I am playing or running an Eberron campaign the addition of FR does little to add value to the sub for me.

As Umbran said earlier, the customers are far from unified on means of access. Neither side is wrong and it is cool that we have a choice - both groups have a means of access that likely fits their needs.

 

[Umbran]

But if the situation is like Mike Mearls says, and they are trying to get some of the grognards back (which I do beleive they are), they might see that DDI is not the way to go.

In the smaller end of business, there's usually hard choices to be made. Small runs in several formats cut into profits on all of them - consolidating into one format tends to increase profits.

My gaming dollars will not go to DDI. WOTC does not care about MY gaming dollars alone, but Grognards have pretty serious purchase power.

Yes, but "Grognard" does not clearly equate to "does not like subscription presentation".

 

[Mournblade94]

Yes, but "Grognard" does not clearly equate to "does not like subscription presentation".

Agreed. I like subscription models for netflix and Xbox live. I personally don't like it for DDI, but I do not speak for anyone but myself. I suspect (with no evidence other than anecdotal) that a large portion of that market feels similar to me.

 

[dagger]

Agreed. I like subscription models for netflix and Xbox live. I personally don't like it for DDI, but I do not speak for anyone but myself. I suspect (with no evidence other than anecdotal) that a large portion of that market feels similar to me.

I would buy 1e/2e PRINT products....nothing else interests me. I already have all the pdfs of 1e/2e anyway and I don't use them. I still would rather have actual new books instead of having to ebay/used book store scavenge hunts.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Actually I wouldn't mind them doing that. Remember Reverse Engineering works both ways. How many of the old module sales might be driven by such conversion entries. If they have to appeal to the greatest amount possible than even a purist would recognize it as just bonus material to the original product. Your original is still there just with the notes for someone that wants the newest edition mind ot it.

The godawful job done on the T1 VILLAGE OF HOMMLET tells me they'd botch any attempt to do that without just wrecking up.

I mean, holy balls, they turned the moathouse dungeon into this 20' wide arena for crying out loud. Had the people responsible ever actually seen the original module?

No - if they reprint older editions and go beyond core material (and it's more than likely they're not; they're rather leaning towards renting it via DDI which I won't do), I'd hate to see "conversion" crap stuck in the middle.

 

[Voadam]

Exactly. This has been my fundamental point, as well. They've pulled the pdfs and have an online distribution set up already with DDI. Even those that don't like it must see that it is what makes the most sense.

Nonsense.

They made a choice to pull all pdfs and stick to 4e print stuff and DDI.

What makes the most sense is highly debatable.

I think it would have made more sense to keep selling old edition pdfs alongside the 4e stuff and DDI. I know I bought a ton of 1e and 2e and basic D&D pdfs when I was only playing and running 3e games and it fed into our 3e games.

When they pulled the pdfs it did not drive me to 4e and DDI. It just made me annoyed at WotC and I spent my monthly gaming budget money on other companies' pdfs instead of getting the five or so WotC pdfs I had been getting each month.

The piracy justifications they gave for why they were pulling the existing pdfs were nonsense. The best answer anyone could give me in speculation threads on the internet was that even though all the work making the pdfs was done, there was a vast library of pdfs that were some of the most popular ones ever sold, other companies handled the sales, and all WotC had to do was take in the monthly profit checks, the profit rolling in wasn't on a scale to be significant to them and they didn't even want to waste resources accounting for the money they got from those sales.

It might have made the most sense for them to cut off that income stream and access for their customers to be able to buy such support material for their games, but that is highly debatable.

 

[Agamon]

The piracy justifications they gave for why they were pulling the existing pdfs were nonsense. The best answer anyone could give me in speculation threads on the internet was that even though all the work making the pdfs was done, there was a vast library of pdfs that were some of the most popular ones ever sold, other companies handled the sales, and all WotC had to do was take in the monthly profit checks, the profit rolling in wasn't on a scale to be significant to them and they didn't even want to waste resources accounting for the money they got from those sales.

It might have made the most sense for them to cut off that income stream and access for their customers to be able to buy such support material for their games, but that is highly debatable.

Your conjecture may or may not be accurate, but we've only got what we were told. And whether or not it makes the most sense to you or me wasn't the point.

 

[TheYeti1775]

Nonsense.

They made a choice to pull all pdfs and stick to 4e print stuff and DDI.

What makes the most sense is highly debatable.

I think it would have made more sense to keep selling old edition pdfs alongside the 4e stuff and DDI. I know I bought a ton of 1e and 2e and basic D&D pdfs when I was only playing and running 3e games and it fed into our 3e games.

When they pulled the pdfs it did not drive me to 4e and DDI. It just made me annoyed at WotC and I spent my monthly gaming budget money on other companies' pdfs instead of getting the five or so WotC pdfs I had been getting each month.

The piracy justifications they gave for why they were pulling the existing pdfs were nonsense. The best answer anyone could give me in speculation threads on the internet was that even though all the work making the pdfs was done, there was a vast library of pdfs that were some of the most popular ones ever sold, other companies handled the sales, and all WotC had to do was take in the monthly profit checks, the profit rolling in wasn't on a scale to be significant to them and they didn't even want to waste resources accounting for the money they got from those sales.

It might have made the most sense for them to cut off that income stream and access for their customers to be able to buy such support material for their games, but that is highly debatable.

You might have a point, if the stream of income dwindled down to a trickle where it wasn't supporting the accounting cost alone, than I would understand why they cut sales. The Piracy excuse never really flew with me anyways. If anything I would wager Piracy increased after the pulling of the sales.

I do hope the WotC folks are looking on this thread at least.
We are telling them how to get $$ out of our wallets into their accounts and what we won't even bat an eyelash to say no to, I hope they take it to heart.

Us grognards are just old fuddy duddies that are set in our ways. <shakes cane>
I would love to be a customer, just provide something I want to purchase.

Personally I'm not into the subscribing for a game method.
Yes I have XBOX Live, I pay $100/yr for a family account so I can have multiples for my son and I plus two guest ones for his friends when they are over.
If you put it behind DDI Subscription to purchase the PDF's or have a Print on Demand option. I could see myself subscribing, I would treat it much like my Costco membership. But if you put it behind the DDI for limited online viewing only. Well, than I won't even bother.

Really I bet I'm like many in a prime customer buying power range for WotC to consider.
mid-thirties with a son who is right at the starting age i was when I started playing, with lots of disposable income.
Right now in my Amazon Cart I have $200 of gaming stuff in it. The only reason I haven't clicked the order button yet is the card I use for Amazon is at home and I'm at work. Much of it is discontinued TSR/WotC stuff I found from 3rd Party sellers.

 

[BigWeather]

I too would happily purchase (unmodified) re-prints, PDFs, or PoDs of old (pre-4e) material. There is no way, however, that I'd purchase rights to online-only viewing, whether time limited or not.