Holy sheepdip - wotc to republish old editions

[El Mahdi]

I have never understood that sort of thing - I'm sorry, but it sounds a lot like, "You produced strawberry ice cream at some time, so I will never buy your chocolate!"

Voting with your wallet is a limited communication tool. If you don't like A, you don't buy A, and if A doesn't sell well, then they know not to do A again. If you don't buy B, they have no way to connect that with how you didn't like A. It fails to communicate your dislike, and so is of no service to either of you.

Plus, if you swear off them entirely, well, then they can write you off as customer - your concerns are no longer theirs. As far as they are concerned, you are no longer part of the market, and your needs, desires, and tastes can now be ignored.

Ultimatums are generally not a great negotiating tactic.

Okay then, what's the alternative?

Near as I can tell, I'm communicating to them two ways: by not buying their products, and by telling them why right here.

Just what kind of reasoning leads a business to decide that what will bring customers back is to rent the books to them (if that's what they're doing). Think editions have caused a split in the fan base...just wait until there's the disparity of 4E players being able to own their books, but older edition players can only rent...

WotC has gotten massive amounts of feedback, they're seeing firsthand that 3.xE is still a viable market (as well as the previous editions), and clamoring for pdf's hasn't ceased in the least - yet here we are over two years on and it's still the WotC Knows Best show.

So what's the alternative? What would you do?

 

[Pilgrim]

So what's the alternative? What would you do?

Kill WotC and take its stuff.

 

[darjr]

Kill WotC and take its stuff.

alright Pilgrim, I got me some iron rations, my ten foot pole, my sword, spellbook, and a bag of holding. let's go

 

[Kobold Boots]

Okay then, what's the alternative?

Near as I can tell, I'm communicating to them two ways: by not buying their products, and by telling them why right here.

Just what kind of reasoning leads a business to decide that what will bring customers back is to rent the books to them (if that's what they're doing). Think editions have caused a split in the fan base...just wait until there's the disparity of 4E players being able to own their books, but older edition players can only rent...

WotC has gotten massive amounts of feedback, they're seeing firsthand that 3.xE is still a viable market (as well as the previous editions), and clamoring for pdf's hasn't ceased in the least - yet here we are over two years on and it's still the WotC Knows Best show.

So what's the alternative? What would you do?

There's no small amount of irony that you're taking this stance, yet have in your signature that "You're with D&D, any edition".

Looking past that, I'd say that your alternative would be to wait and see what they really do, and check it out before taking a stand one way or the other.

Once a stand is necessary, write WoTC customer support directly. While Internet forums are great places for them to peruse, the problem is that it's too easy to get annoyed and knee jerk a response via a message board. It becomes a question of who they listen to because there's a tendency for angsty posts to steamroll and modern marketing research will tell you that the vast majority of customers have two settings.

1. What society tells them that they should say when asked what they want.
2. What the customer really wants.

Check out Malcom Gladwell's work at any time and you'll quickly see why a grain of salt needs to go into forum feedback. (One of the best examples was coffee.. most will say they want a hearty roast. Most will when left to their own devices order creamy weak)

2c
KB

 

[El Mahdi]

There's no small amount of irony that you're taking this stance, yet have in your signature that "You're with D&D, any edition".

There is no irony. My disagreement with WotC has nothing to do with edition. I also don't get into this silly Paizo vs. WotC thing. I want both to succeed, but I especially want WotC to quit screwing up. I challenge you to find any post of mine that doesn't support this.

Criticizing WotC policies is not criticizing 4E. Try to not fall into the same trap that many on these boards seem to succumb to.

 

[Dannager]

I have never understood that sort of thing - I'm sorry, but it sounds a lot like, "You produced strawberry ice cream at some time, so I will never buy your chocolate!"

Voting with your wallet is a limited communication tool. If you don't like A, you don't buy A, and if A doesn't sell well, then they know not to do A again. If you don't buy B, they have no way to connect that with how you didn't like A. It fails to communicate your dislike, and so is of no service to either of you.

Plus, if you swear off them entirely, well, then they can write you off as customer - your concerns are no longer theirs. As far as they are concerned, you are no longer part of the market, and your needs, desires, and tastes can now be ignored.

Ultimatums are generally not a great negotiating tactic.

Basically. Ultimatums are fine when you hold all the cards. Individual customers delivering ultimatums, though? yaomingface.jpg.

 

[Kobold Boots]

There is no irony. My disagreement with WotC has nothing to do with edition. I also don't get into this silly Paizo vs. WotC thing. I want both to succeed, but I especially want WotC to quit screwing up. I challenge you to find any post of mine that doesn't support this.

Criticizing WotC policies is not criticizing 4E. Try to not fall into the same trap that many on these boards seem to succumb to.

Ok, I'll take your advice. Thank you.

My opinion is that if you support the game, you support the company. If you support the company, you support their games. Like any person or thing that makes decisions, they make their decisions to benefit themselves first, and where benefit to others coincides with their own interests, others gain.

I can guarantee that there will be some segment of the market that appreciates the subscription model regardless of the people currently speaking against it without information now. Thinking outside the box, here's the irony. You are against a subscription model for earlier editions of D&D. Provided that those editions are republished that in turn makes you against an edition of D&D in some part.

So my advice to you would be, if you'd consider it.. support something in its totality if you support any part of it.

 

[Lanefan]

If they're looking at re-issuing 1e - particularly the adventure modules - in hard-copy print that I can buy in a store, I'm all in! I just spent far too much at GenCon trying to fill out my collection, and some of what I have is in pretty sorry shape...being able to buy them new in hard copy would rock on toast.

Any format that requires me to do my own printing (e.g. pdf), pretty much count me out; but I can accept that it might have to go this way due to cost concerns.

Any format where I have to pay more than once for the same material (e.g. rental) and-or can only be accessed online will put me in the pitchforks-and-torches brigade.

I don't use a computer behind the screen - in fact, microchips are banned from the table during games (exception: calculators) - if for no other reason than I simply have nowhere to put one.

Lan-"sometimes the low-tech solution really is the best"-efan

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If they're looking at re-issuing 1e - particularly the adventure modules - in hard-copy print that I can buy in a store, I'm all in! I just spent far too much at GenCon trying to fill out my collection, and some of what I have is in pretty sorry shape...being able to buy them new in hard copy would rock on toast.

Any format that requires me to do my own printing (e.g. pdf), pretty much count me out; but I can accept that it might have to go this way due to cost concerns.

Amen to the first, and as to the second, I'd buy pdfs or their equivalent for my (as yet not purchased tablet or eReader) if the price was right, just as backup. Any other kind of release, such as rental/subscription, will yield zero dollars from me.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Hmm.

The most important factors, for me are:

1. The older the material is, the more likely I am to be interested in a re-issued/new publication of it. That's not just because I prefer the older editions, but also because used 3e material is mostly cheap and easy to find, but used original D&D rules, or early AD&D modules, are increasingly difficult to find and increasingly expensive.
2. I'm absolutely uninterested in an ongoing subscription to access D&D content. If I have to keep paying to access the content, then I won't. However, if it's a case of subscribe, download content (e.g. PDFs) and keep it forever, then I might.
3. Print is better than PDF, but PDF is better than nothing.

So if WotC releases a bunch of 3e stuff, I'll take no notice. If they set up a subscription model that lets you access earlier edition material, but only while you're an active subscriber, then I'll take no notice. If they release original D&D and 1e AD&D material in a manner where I can pay for it and it's mine, then I'll be interested.