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Holy Water or other weapons for undead?

Byrons_Ghost

First Post
Due to some investigation and interrogation, my PCs in Shadowfell keep know that they have a necromancer and some undead waiting for them. Since they're headed back to town to rest, they had the idea to get some holy water to help with the undead.

Apparently, though, there isn't any holy water in 4e, or none that I can find. I don't want to just tell them "no", since I'd like to reward their planning and thinking.

Does anyone have any ideas for what I could give them? I was thinking that the town priest might have some ritual scrolls that would protect against the undead, or a one-use weapon, or something.
 
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Oldtimer

Great Old One
Publisher
My (former 3.x) players asked me the same thing. So I let them buy holy water for 25 gp per vial.

Thrown Holy Water
Standard Action Ranged 3/6
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage

Nothing too exiting really, but they liked being able to get it.
 


cmbarona

First Post
Well... to contribute something a tad more useful...

I read in an alchemy excerpt ( http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080814b ) about making "Alchemist's Fire." I'd use this as a template, but make it much cheaper because of the specificity of its use. I'd cut the price in half and play test its effectiveness. The differing levels could account for higher-level clerics making the water.
 

brehobit

Explorer
I like the 0 radiant, but it seems a bit too weak. How about radiant damage equal to radiant vulnerability? So in effect, 2x vulnerability...

Mark
 

Syrsuro

First Post
My (former 3.x) players asked me the same thing. So I let them buy holy water for 25 gp per vial.

Thrown Holy Water
Standard Action Ranged 3/6
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 0 radiant damage

Nothing too exiting really, but they liked being able to get it.

I think I would have flipped open to page 42 and gone with something a bit more effective. Probably using the Low Normal Damage expression on the hit target. I also like the idea of 0 to 1 points of radiant damage to each surrounding, but I'm not sure I like how that interacts with vulnerability.

Carl
 


Byrons_Ghost

First Post
These are some good ideas. Thanks everyone!

I'd forgotten about the alchemical stuff upcoming in the equipment book (and this is after I just gave the PCs some of those items last session...)

I'll have to go through and read that again.

Since the group has a paladin but not a cleric, I was also thinking of including a daily item (probably a holy symbol) that would turn undead. Basically it would just allow the paladin to use his channel divinity as the cleric ability once per day. Any thoughts on that?
 

Syrsuro

First Post
Since the group has a paladin but not a cleric, I was also thinking of including a daily item (probably a holy symbol) that would turn undead. Basically it would just allow the paladin to use his channel divinity as the cleric ability once per day. Any thoughts on that?

Pretty obvious candidate for a magical Holy Symbol. Give it a daily power to turn undead and you're done.

Using the rules for wands (another implement so it seems appropriate) which allow building encounter powers into the implement as a daily, and calling Turn Undead a level 1 encounter power (more or less correct), this would make it a Level 3 item.

Carl
 

underfoot007

First Post
These are some good ideas. Thanks everyone!

I'd forgotten about the alchemical stuff upcoming in the equipment book (and this is after I just gave the PCs some of those items last session...)

I'll have to go through and read that again.

Since the group has a paladin but not a cleric, I was also thinking of including a daily item (probably a holy symbol) that would turn undead. Basically it would just allow the paladin to use his channel divinity as the cleric ability once per day. Any thoughts on that?

take a look at the feat "pelors radiance" phb page 199, I think this might work nicely.

Good luck

Jon
 

Mengu

First Post
Some random thoughts...

Holy Mistletoe: Level 4
Reagent 40 gp
Power (Consumable * Radiant): Free Action. Expend this reagent when you use a power with the radiant keyword of up to 4th level. Add 2 to any damage rolls and target is pushed back 1 square (if the power already does a push, increase pushed distance by 1 square).

Holy Oil: Level 5
Potion 50 gp
Power (Consumable * Radiant): Minor Action. Apply this potion to a melee weapon. Until the end of your next turn, the weapon does radiant damage.

Holy Hand Grenade <insert more suitable name>: Level 10+
Potion
Level 10 - 200 gp
Level 20 - 5000 gp
Level 30 - 125000 gp
Power (Consumable * Radiant): Standard Action. Make a ranged attack vs reflex with a +2 bonus (range 5). Target takes 2d6+Dexterity radiant damage. If the target has radiant vulnerability, target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
Level 20 - +4 bonus, 3d6+Dexterity Damage
Level 30 - +6 bonus, 4d6+Dexterity Damage
 

That One Guy

First Post
These are some good ideas. Thanks everyone!

I'd forgotten about the alchemical stuff upcoming in the equipment book (and this is after I just gave the PCs some of those items last session...)

I'll have to go through and read that again.

Since the group has a paladin but not a cleric, I was also thinking of including a daily item (probably a holy symbol) that would turn undead. Basically it would just allow the paladin to use his channel divinity as the cleric ability once per day. Any thoughts on that?
But my good lord, such a symbol does exist! A Symbol of Turning in the Dragon 364 Ashen Covenant article. It allows somebody who has Channel Divinity to Turn Undead once per day (or a cleric to turn undead again even if Channel Divinity has been used in that fight!). I prefer it over the Pelor feat because it does not require the worship of the sun god. Also, as an implement it gives crits +1D6 Rad dmg per plus.

Also... what if the holyH2O deals 1 rad, and then ongoing damage = to the enemy's vulnerability(Save Ends). MAybe my view of the stuff is based on Castlevania 2 from when I was younger but...
 
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LowSpine

First Post
Holy Water Vial
0 Radiant
Burst 1
Range 3/6
Dex vs Reflex



Holy Water Sprinkler
0 Radiant
Close Blast 1
Dex Versus Reflex


Holy Incense
0 Radiant
Aura 1



The list goes on. How about ongoing damage for holy water as well. It makes sense, even if the price of it goes up and/or it has a penalty to hit to balance its effects.
 
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Wednesday Boy

The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
I don't have my books with me right now, is the mechanic that a Radiant vulnerable 5 creature takes 5 extra damage when hit with a Radiant attack? So the 0 Radiant damage Holy Waters would do damage equal to the creature's Radiant vulnerability? Thanks!
 

LowSpine

First Post
I don't have my books with me right now, is the mechanic that a Radiant vulnerable 5 creature takes 5 extra damage when hit with a Radiant attack? So the 0 Radiant damage Holy Waters would do damage equal to the creature's Radiant vulnerability? Thanks!

Yes, and seeing as holy water should do no damage other than to creatures with radiant weakness, it makes sense to be 0, as Oldtimer put.
 

Wednesday Boy

The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
Yes, and seeing as holy water should do no damage other than to creatures with radiant weakness, it makes sense to be 0, as Oldtimer put.

Awesome. Very creative solution, Oldtimer!

Are there any creatures that are Radiant vulnerable but not unholy (i.e., devilish or undead)?
 


Oldtimer

Great Old One
Publisher
How about ongoing damage for holy water as well. It makes sense, even if the price of it goes up and/or it has a penalty to hit to balance its effects.
Yes, I might up the effect a bit by adding "ongoing 0 radiant damage (save ends)".

I like the picture it paints of the holy water slowly eating away zombie face.
 


LowSpine

First Post
I don't mean to criticize 4E, but having all this stuff missing (with years to put it in) is why when I first read it the system felt really hollow.

Anyway - no point being negative now.

We could do with a ritual Consecrate Ground involving incense and holy water to make the surfaces and air space cause ongoing radiant damage.

The ritual shouldn't be able to be just done anywhere. Just in holy places such as churches and graveyards and rules for how those areas can be desacrated - but not too easily - such as a good person spilling the blood of an inocent.

Would be nice to have some minor damaging aura ( or perhaps it shows them for what they are or something) from garlic against vampires as well. Not too damaging or effective - just enough to keep in with the mythology. - I think turning is easily a good enough mechanic as it is for holy symbols against vampires.
 

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