Holy Water or other weapons for undead?

[Byrons_Ghost]

Thanks for the article link, I had no idea that was in there. Typically I ignore WotC's online stuff. Serves me right.

As for ongoing damage, I can see it eventually, but probably not for my 2nd level PCs. That strikes me as too powerful.

 

[Dire Human]

Holy Water

Level: 1
Category: Volatile
Time: 1 hour
Component Cost: See below
Market Price: 70 gp
Key Skill: Religion (no check)
This vial of sanctified water has been sealed with holy sigils. The vial is easily shattered when thrown, splashing the area with its contents.

Vial of Holy Water

Level 1+

When shattered, this flask fills an area with holy water.
Lvl 1 20 gp
Lvl 6 75 gp
Lvl 11 350 gp
Lvl 16 1,800 gp
Lvl 21 9,000 gp
Lvl 26 45,000 gp
Alchemical Item
Power (Consumable

Radiant): Standard Action. Make an attack: Area burst 1 within 5; +4 vs. Reflex; on a hit, target takes ongoing 0 radiant damage (save ends).
Level 6: +9 vs. Reflex; ongoing radiant damage equal to its radiant vulnerability (save ends).
Level 11: +14 vs. Reflex; ongoing radiant damage equal to twice times its radiant vulnerability (save ends).
Level 16: +19 vs. Reflex; ongoing radiant damage equal to twice times its radiant vulnerability (save ends).
Level 21: +24 vs. Reflex; ongoing radiant damage equal to three times its radiant vulnerability (save ends).
Level 26: +29 vs. Reflex; ongoing radiant damage equal to four times its radiant vulnerability (save ends).


Modification: Oil (level + 1). You coat a melee weapon with the water, temporarily imbuing it with radiant power. The next sucessful attack made with the weapon causes the target to take additional radiant damage equal to the ongoing damage the target would have taken if the holy water were thrown. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter, or for 5 minutes.
Level Component Cost (gp)
2 25
7 100
12 500
17 2,600
22 13,000
27 65,000

 

[PHGraves]

While I like the direction this is going, I have two quick questions:

How will this affect minions?
How do we fix it?

 

[Mengu]

While I like the direction this is going, I have two quick questions:

How will this affect minions?
How do we fix it?

Minions don't have vulnerability to radiant. Nothing to fix.

Also of note, there are some undead with no vulnerability to radiant, such as ghosts, and holy water will have no effect on them. Some such undead have regeneration, and taking 0 points of radiant damage could be considered sufficient to stop them from regenerating for a turn.

It's an elegant solution really.

 

[Oldtimer]

That would do nothing at all, because (IIRC) ongoing damage isn't affected by vulnerability.

Are you sure about that? Reading "vulnerable" on page 283 of MM it just says "When an attack deals damage of the specified type, this monster takes the indicated amount of extra damage of the same type." Surely the ongoing damage should be included in this? After all, it is caused by the attack, not some environmental effect.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

I don't mean to criticize 4E, but having all this stuff missing (with years to put it in) is why when I first read it the system felt really hollow.

I will grant you that the information density ("crunch per page"?) is lower in the new edition due to their decision to improve readability and design clarity.

However, the new and improved table in DMG Page 42 is your best friend when adjudicating stuff like this.

For example, using the guidelines in this table, for the holy water thing I would rule that it deals 3d6+3 radiant damage when a whole flask is thrown into a radiant-vulnerable creature, and 1d6+3 radiant damage against radiant-vulnerable when sprinkled in a blast 3 zone.

(assuming that the characters are 1-3rd level because of the Keep on the Shadowfell reference)

Anyway - no point being negative now.

Nope

We could do with a ritual Consecrate Ground involving incense and holy water to make the surfaces and air space cause ongoing radiant damage.

The ritual shouldn't be able to be just done anywhere. Just in holy places such as churches and graveyards and rules for how those areas can be desacrated - but not too easily - such as a good person spilling the blood of an inocent.

Would be nice to have some minor damaging aura ( or perhaps it shows them for what they are or something) from garlic against vampires as well. Not too damaging or effective - just enough to keep in with the mythology. - I think turning is easily a good enough mechanic as it is for holy symbols against vampires.

A permanent ritual to consecrate ground sounds good, although it sounds like a paragon-level thing.

Flasks of holy water seem more appropriate for heroic-tier whippersnappers

 

[small pumpkin man]

That would do nothing at all, because (IIRC) ongoing damage isn't affected by vulnerability.

This is incorrect. Ongoing damage doesn't get extra damage from things like feats or magic items because they only apply to damage rolls, and/or on attacks/hits however vulnerability applies any time you take damage, which includes ongoing damage.

 

[CubeKnight]

Guess I confused bonus damage with vulnerability.

 

[LowSpine]

A permanent ritual to consecrate ground sounds good, although it sounds like a paragon-level thing.

Makes sense, in real life I think it is only Bishops that can consecrate/deconsecrate holy ground. I may be wrong, but I am pretty convinced. I would put Bishops in the paragon tier.

 

[PHGraves]

Minions don't have vulnerability to radiant. Nothing to fix.

So you have no issue with holy water dealing no damage to minions?