Holy Word Woes

[Simplicity]

Finally, and don't laugh, consider bard levels. Silence, countersong, good Will save....it's the ultimate class for a demon who wants to stay mired on this plane.

You want Mr. Superdemon to take level in BARD?
Flay, flay, flay the pathetic mortals, mortals, mortals...

 

[DonTadow]

YOu can send non evil creatures at them. You can also use the blasphemy spell as well. I'd send non-evil creatures at them whom use the blasphemy spell. the creatures can also play smart, cast silence and use items that silence the cleric.

YOu can put monsters in the mix whom have high will saves

 

[DM-Rocco]

"Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by holy word."

That's the answer right there... at least it is for me.

Well, problem is that I don't want to spend a ton of time coming up with all encounter where the party is out gunned cause everyone is higher level. You should be able to put lower level guys in greater number against your party and they should be able to be challenged.

jgsugden had some good ideas, thanks.

You see, the problem is that the world they are in is 75% evil, about 20% neutral and about 5% good, leaving very few situations where the spell is not good. I made the world, not considering a 7th level spell they might take a year down the road.

I already nerfed the caster level on it, I won't let them take into account any items that boost caster level for the spells effect. I had to, they were killing everything.

I generally, as a rule, design the adventures so they are challenged but never have the chance to rest until the senerio is over. It forces them to think a bit more than hack and slash.

So, the party is around 15th in level, they kill everything under level 10, for the most part, and if a few creatures do survive the saving throw, they will fail the next saving throw from the other caster, they both have nice DCs (and I don't want to further nerf the characters by taking away things that make there DCs hi), since you can't be effective in combat if you are paralized. Also, if you look at the spell, you only get a saving throw if you are indangered of being banished. The other effects don't give a saving throw, namely the Deatha and Paralized, but even being blinded causes all sorts of trouble.

I am close to banning it down to one casting a day or not at all.

 

[Hjorimir]

You could also just send waves of dretch at them. Sure, they will get banished, but they're not worth any xp anyway. Once those spells are gone it's time to call out the big boys. Keep in mind that those powerful fiends tend to be highly intelligent. They undoubtedly know of Holy Word and will plan accordingly.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

Let the party encounter Mr. Superdemon in a domed chamber supported by colums held up and butressed by minor fiendish slaves -dretches, or the like.

Holy Word works, and depending on Mr. Superdemon's HD relative to the caster level, he may or may not succumb, but the dretches, and therefore the ceiling, will certaily fall.

In my experience, most PCs are reticent to do anything that is going to bring down the ceiling on their heads.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Well, problem is that I don't want to spend a ton of time coming up with all encounter where the party is out gunned cause everyone is higher level. You should be able to put lower level guys in greater number against your party and they should be able to be challenged.

Not in any D&D game I've ever played....

Have you read the thread about the lv 20 barbarian vs. the 1st-level horde of chumps? Thousands fall from the swift arrows of this near-god walking amongst us.

You're starting to reach the peak of non-epic level play. There does reach a certain point where low HD chumps cease to be effective.

 

[Qvintus]

well you could use put em in an encounter in a town and evry town's person with in 40 feet die... Kind of a problem.
If they have any horse they died, animal companions or touch bears get hit .... and as a good person you can't kill people that havent done any thing wrong.
The big problem with holy word is it hit bystanders not evry decent person is good if you get my drift

 

[DM-Rocco]

Let the party encounter Mr. Superdemon in a domed chamber supported by colums held up and butressed by minor fiendish slaves -dretches, or the like.

Holy Word works, and depending on Mr. Superdemon's HD relative to the caster level, he may or may not succumb, but the dretches, and therefore the ceiling, will certaily fall.

In my experience, most PCs are reticent to do anything that is going to bring down the ceiling on their heads.

LMAO, that is good fun and right up my alley. Might try that. But everyone in the world is evil, can't always send demons against them.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Not in any D&D game I've ever played....

Have you read the thread about the lv 20 barbarian vs. the 1st-level horde of chumps? Thousands fall from the swift arrows of this near-god walking amongst us.

You're starting to reach the peak of non-epic level play. There does reach a certain point where low HD chumps cease to be effective.

Yes, but I was not refering to a group of 1st level chumps, the way the spell is structured I can't send any number of level 10 or lower monsters against them or they are taken out by the Holy Word. You should be able send a squad of level 10 NPCs at the players, say something like 20, at it should be very challenging, but if the cleric can take them out with one spell, then it is not worth playing.

If I over load them with hudreds of 10th level guys, that is just a ton of xp they get for free. If I make them 14th level or lower, they become blind and thus almost surely die. The spell is really powerful.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Not in any D&D game I've ever played....

Have you read the thread about the lv 20 barbarian vs. the 1st-level horde of chumps? Thousands fall from the swift arrows of this near-god walking amongst us.

You're starting to reach the peak of non-epic level play. There does reach a certain point where low HD chumps cease to be effective.

Also, that thread is completely unrealistic. Even though D&D is not real, it has to conform to some standards of reality. In that situation, even a thousand 1st level characters would not just sit there and die. They would be smart enough to either flee, aid each other in combat or just bumb rush the guy. Even though high level PCs are very powerful, if you send enough kobolds at them they will die, whether from damage or just suffocating under a pile of kobold corpses.