Holy Word Woes

[DM-Rocco]

So, I am now sick of Holy Word. I want to put evil creatures in front of my players, but, with high levels PCs and two players able to cast Holy Word, nothing is alive after one round. Without banning the spell, what have others done to make it work in the game but not have it over power the whole game?

 

[Shemeska]

Holy Word never much was an issue in my game, largely because only maybe 1/3 of the PCs were themselves good. The only time that the spell was used it ended up doing more damage to the party than to the Tanar'ri that were attacking them at the time. I want to say it incapacitated two or three PCs and while it cleared the floor of a few dozen dretches, the Vrock and two shadow fiends weren't so much as touched.

Now that was in 3e, and I've not gone to 3.5 wholly, so has Holy Word been bumped up in 3.5 or something?

 

[reveal]

Blasphemy.

It's the evil equivalent of Holy Word. Turnabout is fair play.

 

[gizmo33]

What's an example of an encounter that is a problem for you? Do you not like the spell's effects vs. outer-planar creatures, or just evil creatures in general? With two characters able to cast it, I assume that you're talking about 13th or above level characters? Are you sure that you're encounters are EL 13 ?

 

[DM-Rocco]

One would think that with the problems I have had with the spell, I would have it memorized, but when I get home and take a look at it, I'll comment in more detail.

 

[reveal]

Here's the spell if it helps:

Holy Word

Evocation [Good, Sonic]
Level: Clr 7, Good 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 40 ft.
Area: Nongood creatures in a 40-ft.-radius spread centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Any nongood creature within the area that hears the holy word suffers the following ill effects.

HD Effect
Equal to caster level Deafened
Up to caster level -1 Blinded, deafened
Up to caster level -5 Paralyzed, blinded, deafened
Up to caster level -10 Killed, paralyzed, blinded, deafened

The effects are cumulative and concurrent. No saving throw is allowed against these effects.

Deafened: The creature is deafened for 1d4 rounds.

Blinded: The creature is blinded for 2d4 rounds.

Paralyzed: The creature is paralyzed and helpless for 1d10 minutes.

Killed: Living creatures die. Undead creatures are destroyed.

Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nongood extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the holy word. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a –4 penalty) to negate.

Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by holy word.

 

[jgsugden]

Some techniques to handle these types of problems:

1.) Get them to use up all their holy words. If they've already cast it, they can't cas it again. Design the adventures so that PCs can't rest every time they use up the holy words.

2.) Put obstacles in the way that make the PCs hesitate to use the spell. For instance, if the PCs need to capture a weaker evil or neutral foe, they can't very well use holy word and kill the guy. Note that neutral creatures can be killed by a Holy Word as well. If the PCs unload with a Holy Word in the middle of a village, they may be commiting mass murder.

3.) Counterspells work wonders ... As does spell immunity. If the PCs have a reputation for opening up with a holy word, enemies that know them may prepare for it.

4) As a sonic spell, silence will stop it. Also, deaf foes do not have to fear it. Introducing a repeating enemy that happens to be deaf can give you lots of encounters with minimal contrivance.

5) Plan for it. Toss enemies at the PCs in waves. Holy Word may kill the first group with no sweat at all, but the second, third or fourth wave may cause problems.

6) Use High HD creatures. If the creatures have more HD than the caster, there is no effect.

7) Anti-magic stops these spells.

8.) Spell Resistance also works.

9.) If worse comes to worse, make them take into account what they're actually doing when they cast this spell. They're tapping into the direct power of their deity. If the PCs abuse the power, the god may take affront.

10.) How about some good versus good fights? Two good armies can have opposing goals. Although they are not generally solved with violence, there are situations where two goodly armies must fight each other to reach their separate goals.

 

[Simplicity]

It is kind of a pain in the ass for the players to be facing off against Mr. Superdemon or something, and then to have it all come crashing down because he couldn't make the Will Save -4...

 

[Hjorimir]

"Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by holy word."

That's the answer right there... at least it is for me.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It is kind of a pain in the ass for the players to be facing off against Mr. Superdemon or something, and then to have it all come crashing down because he couldn't make the Will Save -4...

Well, to be fair, there are a LOT of spells that have this issue. Especially at this level. Finger of death, disintegrate, etc Heck, Banishment is lower level.....at least this only banishes them for a day. The demon can come back tomorrow and kill the village in it's sleep, and then the PC's will think twice about just chasing away something that evil agian....

Don't overlook Will-save-boosting things like Iron Will. SR also works sauce against this spell, and outsiders tend to have pretty decent SR. It's also not terribly effective at long range (only things within 40 ft. are affected), meaning an enemy who refuses to close with them (and has ways of ensuring they can't close with him) will be a continual hassle. Also, a good DM strategy in this situation is, as another poster mentioned, to use tiers. Don't let them rest after each battle, assault them with lower-level evil outsiders and gradually ramp up the challenge in the course of the same day, hitting them at the end with something at their EL or slightly above.

Finally, and don't laugh, consider bard levels. Silence, countersong, good Will save....it's the ultimate class for a demon who wants to stay mired on this plane.

PS: remember that they're only gone for a day....if they got to this plane once, they can presumably do it again, and under their own time and their own effort, ensuring that when they come back, they're going to be in a much stronger situation than before. And potentially with safeguards against what sent them away the first time.