Hombrew Settings; 11 Base Classes, Which Ones Would You Choose?

Possible idea for my own "next" D&D 3.5 game...

FIGHTER: basic warrior type.

KNIGHT: Heavy-armor defensive specialist. Replaces Paladin.

BARBARIAN: Big-ass damage dealer.

ROGUE: Primary Skill User.

BARD: Generalist/Face.

SCOUT: Wilderness survivalist. Replaces Ranger.

SORCERER: Primary Arcane Caster. Replaces wizard. (Tweaked; INT caster, bonus feats as wizard, spells known=favored soul).

MYSTIC: Primary Divine Caster. Replaces Cleric (Tweaked: As Dragonlance, but with spells known=favored soul).

OVATE: Homebrewed. Primary Nature Caster. Replaces Druid. (As druid, but spontaneous caster, cha stat, free divinations as class abilities, no wildshape, spells known=favored soul).

WARLOCK: Secondary Arcane Caster.

MONK: Skirmisher.

That makes the final tally ten.

Warriors: Fighter, Knight, Barbarian, Monk
Arcane: Sorcerer, Warlock, Bard
Divine: Mystic, Ovate
Expert: Rogue, Scout

Anyone interested in my tweaked classes and Ovate, here it is.
 

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Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader (Book of Nine Swords) -- These three classes cover such a wide array of character concepts, it'd probably be possible to run a campaign with just these three. Allow new schools (see my sig for some examples) to fill out many other character concepts, like archery.

Sorcerer (PHB) -- Open up (almost) all spells in the PHB to Sorcerers, and bingo, one class covers all primary casters. Grant bonus feats, and allow "specialists": must pick first spell of each new spell-level from a specific school (or other list) and may not use or learn spells from a proscribed school (or pair of schools, or opposed spell list), in exchange for an extra spell-slot at each spell-level. Also, allow many specialist options (like those in UA, but not all of the ones in PHBII, because the Conjuration one is just plain broken). Allow [Reserve] feats.

Binder (Tome of Magic) -- Needs a bit of tweaking to be able to stand up next to the other classes, but it's very flavorful and dripping with cool. Also, works well with the Martial Initiators.

Totem Warrior, Champion, Akashic (Arcana Evolved) -- Non-magical fighting types, but each brings a ton of flexibility to the table. Each one is effectively a group of related classes. They are basically here for those who don't like the Martial Initiator mechanics -- except the Akashic. The Akashic is here because it's the best skillmonkey class ever.


Hmmm, three more... though honestly, I feel like everything is covered.

Well, I could say use my Spirit Binders (see sig for details). Those fit with the Binder, and act as replacements for the Druid, Barbarian, Ranger, Bard and Scout. There's perhaps a bit too much overlap with the AU's Totem Warrior, though.

For a dragon-themed game, I might prefer the Dragon Shaman (PHBII), Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic), and Warlock (C.Arc). They're lower powered than the Martial Initiators, but only minor tweaking in the form of a few extra magic items is necessary, IMHO.

For a stealth-oriented game, perhaps the Rogue, Scout (C.Adv), and Oathbound (AU).

Cheers, -- N
 


For a "vanilla" fantasy setting, probably.......

1. Eldritch Weaver, from Green Ronin's Advanced Player's Manual, as the primary arcane caster. It has good themes and specialties that the wizard lacks, yet is a bit more limited, maybe equivalent to a specialist wizard but a little moreso.

2. Thanemage, from GR's APM, as the arcane warrior type. It's not as good a caster as I'd like for a warrior-mage, but it's not overpowered like the duskblade, overly-specialized like the bard, or not-really-arcane and strangely/idiosyncratically-Charisma-based like the mage blade.

3. Unfettered, from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved, as the swashbuckler/duelist/martial artist archetype. They fit a decent number of concepts for light or unarmored warriors who rely on finesse and agility rather than brute force.

4. Witch, from Monte Cook's AU/AE, as the mysterious/elemental/blur-the-line-of-arcane-and-divine magic-user. Their spells aren't as potent as a primary caster's, since their advancement is closer to the bard's, but they get several at-will or X/day witchery powers suited to their element or theme, they have fighting ability and general skills similar to a bard's, and they have access to a broad mix of spells, though only a modest number per day.

5. Greenbond, from AU/AE, as the shamanic spirit-magic wielder. It's a little better-suited than the shaman of Oriental Adventures, though it also has access to spells that would normally be arcane in D&D, but at least its spirit focus can explain that away.

6. Champion, from Monte Cook's AU/AE, as the divine warrior, paladin, blackguard, revolutionary, or justicar type. With the right choice of cause and such, they can reasonably fit various themes, though their abilities are fairly rigid, there aren't enough predefined causes+abilities to choose from, and their class skills are rather narrow. Still, a reasonably generic divine warrior type.

7. Totem Warrior, from AU/AE, as the slightly-shamanic, wilderness-oriented barbarian warrior with an animalistic bent. They have good flexibility and mild enough mystical stuff, focused on their animal totem and to a lesser extent the animal companion they get from it, to be a generic beastmaster/savage. Significant fighting ability but decent skills and some minor amount of other utility.

8. Ninja, from AEG's Rokugan Campaign Setting for Oriental Adventures, to fill the assassin/shadowy warrior role. They're a tad weak perhaps, since their Ninja Dodge functions akin to the Dodge feat instead of resembling the monk's AC bonus, but they're an effective assassin base class without any strange or mystical abilities, emphasizing offense and some speed.

9. Warrior, from the EQ RPG, as a general warrior-type and as a berserker. They're much like the fighter, but with a berserking ability and some taunting abilities. But slightly tougher, almost like a barbarian.

10. Bard, from the EQ RPG, as a secondary warrior/skillmonkey and song-magic wielder. They're a bit more combat-capable than D&D bards, with songs (that function sort of like spells and sort of not) as their only class feature beyond bardic knowledge, access to one or two restricted feats later on, and some disciplines (limited special abilities) at epic levels.

11. Priest of the Celestial Spheres, from the PDF by Lion's Den Press, as the primary divine caster. A flexible divine spellcaster loosely based on the 2E D&D cleric and such, which had access to spheres of magic dependant on their patron deity's portfolio (aka their sphere of influence).

There's no good substitute for the rogue that I can find, in the materials I have. The akashic, the EQ rogue, the beguiler, the ninja, and the unfettered have some similarities to it, but of them only the beguiler can deal with traps like a D&D rogue (such an ability just wasn't required in AU/AE or EQ, where the Search and Disable Device skills can be used fully by anyone). Yet beguilers and akashics are very mystical classes, the ninja is not a trap-handler, and the EQ rogue is more a warrior than a sneak/skillmonkey. Outside the materials I own, I can only guess that the Factotum or Scout might substitute for a rogue adequately, but I don't know how mystical the Factotum is, and the Scout is rather wilderness-oriented, unlike the rogue.
 
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I'm considering building a new world for a new 3.5 campaign. I have access to a bunch of 3rd Paryt Books and am considering scrapping the standard 11 Base Classes.

This is to be a world that has very little than a single small area fleshed out. Basically, anything goes.

In a new 'vanilla' homebrew world if you were to pick any 11 base classes (from the PHB and/or D20/OGL sources), which ones would you choose and why?

1) Fighter- you can build almost any nonmagical warrior archetype with it. Change certain class abilities from Barbarians to Fighter Feats.

2) Rogue- you can build almost any thiefly archetype with it.

3) Wizard- you can build almost any spellcaster archetype with it.

4) Soulknife- just reflavor its psionics to magic. If you do use this class, use the feats from Dragon #341. For additional fun, you may wish to fold in some of the AU/AE Mage-Blade stuff.

5) Holy Warrior from Green Ronin's Book of the Righteous. You get holy warriors for all alignments. You may wish to get the 3.5 updated version.

6) Battle Sorcerer. If you must, HR any feat requiring "Sorcerer" to work for them. This should fill the martial spellcaster role nicely. Personally, most of the time, I HR sorcs and bttlsorcs to have some kind of Heritage/Bloodline feat to explain their innate spellcasting- see DCv1, PHB2, CompArc and so forth. As long as you're housruling, you might want to have them use the fatigue system from UA.

7) Oriental Adventures Shaman- replace your cleric with this, but expand the weapon choices while making the class' IUC one of a list of appropriate bonus feats. (For the record, the Dragon #318 has the OA update, making this class' IUC similar to the Monk's.)

8) Scout/Ranger- smash 'em together (skip the spells) and you've got a sweet wilderness class.

9) AU/AE Greenbond OR CompDiv Spirit Shaman- this covers your animist/nature spellcasters very nicely, though you may want to give it the Druid spell list.

10) Kingdom of Kalamar Spellsinger- boost its skill points and replace the bard.

11) AU/AE Oathsworn for unarmed warriors.

And I would probably come up with a different list if asked on a different day...
 

I'd choose the following (I know, I know, that's 12 not 11. Cut warlock if you want 11):
Skilled:
  • Scout
  • Rogue
  • Akashic (if you don't want AE classes, substitute with factotum).

Warriors:
  • Warblade
  • Swordsage
  • Crusader

Priests:
  • Archivist
  • Greenbond (if you don't want AE classes, substitute with shapeshifting druid).
  • Marshal

Mages:
  • Warlock
  • Mage blade (if you don't want AE classes, substitute with duskblade).
  • Wizard

Why these twelve? The scout, rogue and akashic are three different flavours of skill user. Each can hold their own in combat, is easy to play, and has a number of different hooks - military commissions, heists and strange memories from long ago, for example. Each has a different niche - towns, wilderness and knowledge - and each plays differently.

The three Sublime Way warriors make my list every time. Tome of Battle's maneuvers are an excellent improvement on regular warriors. Each class plays differently and fills a different niche - the heavily armed and armoured warrior, the holy knight and the spellblade/unarmed pugilist/martial artist seeking wisdom/ninja. Though complicated, they are richly rewarding. If you don't like TOB (and many don't, unfortunately) substitute the three with Arcana Evolved's champion, unfettered and warmain.

The priests were easy choices. The archivist and greenbond are flavourful, adept healers but not limited to that role, and provide a number of plot hooks for adventures - communing with the Green, searching for lost spells and rituals, and acting on behalf of other bodies. I find them closer to myth and fantasy than the cleric and druid. The marshal is a "martial" priest, who fulfills that role without religion.

Finally, I wasn't convinced about the spellcasters. The warlock is a nice simplification of the wizard with its own flavour, and the mage blade fills an archetype left empty by 3E. However, the wizard is so generalised that it can be bland - I recommend using Unearthed Arcana's specialist wizards to add some extra flavour, or even using the beguiler, dread necromancer and warmage instead of the basic wizard.
 
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In a new 'vanilla' homebrew world if you were to pick any 11 base classes (from the PHB and/or D20/OGL sources), which ones would you choose and why?
What do you mean by "vanilla"? If you mean it in the sense of "generic flavor" then even D&D's faux-Medieval isn't really vanilla, as it has strong assumptions about how setting elements such as magic work.
 

Since its a different day...changes I'd make to my previous list.

1) Fighter- you can build almost any nonmagical warrior archetype with it.

2) Unchanged.

3) Wizard. Use this class' basic mechanics for both arcane and divine casters. The differences would be:

Wizards run as is.

Clerics change from Wizard class: Wis instead of Int as casting stat, no bonus feats, no familiars, use Cleric spell list & progression, get Domains, Turn Undead, Armor proficiency (determined by faith), Weapon proficiency (determined by faith), and no ASF.

4) AU/AE Mage Blade, but giving them better spellcasting.

5) Unchanged.

6) AU/AE Totem Warrior for barbarian types.

7) Oriental Adventures Shaman- replace your Monk with this, using the full Monk treatment of IUC, FoB, Speed boost and Wis Bonus to AC. Possibly reduce spellcasting progression from full to medium.

8) Unchanged.

9) Unchanged.

10) Unchanged.

11) Wilder. But only if you open up all of the psionic powers to them.
 
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For a sort of 'generic' D&D world, I'd probably pick the following classes. All from WotC sources, because my OGL tastes run less into "D&D variants" and more into "Pretty much incompatible, by flavor or mechanics, from a D&D game".

Core Four:

Fighter--The classic 'hits people with sword' guy. A flexible class that covers a lot of archetypes.

Rogue--Skill monkey, Skulk, and/or Swashbuckler. Plus, it's a class that doesn't pressure people into taking prestige classes.

Wu Jen--As a replacement to wizard. It's like a more flavorful version of the wizard, and by having its own spell list, it avoids a lot of the splat craziness that has the potential to make casters even more uber than they already are.

Cloistered cleric--My most hesitant pick. I'd like a class that makes the Cleric less of a warrior without making it more of something else.

Plus More:

Paladin--Including the Paladin of Freedom variant (plus, presumably, the paladin of tyranny and slaughter if the campaign swings that way). Should stand out more as a holy warrior now that the cleric is less fighty.

Barbarian--Nice flavor, coupled with a strong class make this an obvious pick.

Ranger--For all your woodsman needs. I don't mind the spellcasting, and if you want less of it, just take levels of fighter instead.

Warlock--A flavorful class that presents an alternative to the vancian casters.

Bard--I don't care what you think, I like this guy. I'd probably boost his healing ability a bit, though. I want him to be a viable replacement for the cleric.

Marshall--A nice, non-magical leader class. For all those Fighter-with-an-MBA types.

Spirit Shaman--A nature magician that does something besides turn into a bear and hit people.
 

First, the classic ones:
1. Cleric
2. Fighter (probably with the Pathfinder boosts, to compete with other classes). Alternatively: Use the Iron Heroes Man at Arms. (Removing a few IH idiosyncrasies, you would have a Fighter that can change some of his bonus feats each day, and has more skills.)
3. Magister (AE, Arcana Evolved)
instead of Wizard. The AE spells and spell system is more interesting and might even be more balanced. Oh, and the need staffs.
4. Rogue. I don't know if the Pathfinder boosts are actually useful, but that might be an option.


5. Akashic.
I just love them. They have a unique appeal to me. They are lore keepers and yet very adaptable. And they can also stand in for a Rogue.
6. Warlock.
A different type of magic. Sure, it's probably underpowered, but at least with an interesting flavor.
7. Warlord. Oh, wait, that's 4E. But I love them!
7. Druid. Shapeshifting FTW. complicated, overpowered, but the joy of turning into a Dire Ape or Elephant shouldn't be missed. Greenbond is a good alternative if you more like a plant & healing focused "nature caster", but it lacks the wild shape)
8. Ranger. It's a strong archetype. I was tempted to go with Totem Warrior (AE) or Unfettered (also AE), but they have drawbacks (The Totems of the warrior force a certain theme, and the Unfettered is not very nature-focused)
9. Champion (AE). Replaces the Paladin. A lot more customization possible and overall feels better designed.
10. Bard. If you can find a more powerful variant, great. The "support" character niche is attractive to some players, and Bards have an interesting theme.
11. Mage Blade (AE) or Dusk Blade. The spellcaster/warrior mix that everyone and his grandma wants to play but never gets right. Well, these two are good ones. I think the Dusk Blade is better.
 

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