Homebrew: Magehunter Class

[Glade Riven]

I'd like to get some feedback on this class I typed up:

Mage Hunter
HD: d8
BAB: Med
Fort: bad
Ref: good
Will: good
Proficiencies: Light and Medium Armor, Simple and Martial Weapons, no shields.
Purpose: The mage hunter exists to neutralize spell casters, both divine and arcane. They are an eclectic bunch who feel that spell casters do more harm than good in the world. Mage Hunters reach a unique understanding of magic in order to combat the effects.
Skills: 4 + Int Modifier; Acrobatics, Appraise, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Intimidate, Knowledge: Arcana, Knowledge: Planes, Knowledge: Religion, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival, Use Magical Device
Level Progression:
1. Detect Magic, Spell Eater 1/day
2. Spell Breaker, Bonus Feat
3. Arcane Break
4. Backlash, Spell Eater 2/day
5. Track Magic
6. Bonus Feat
7. Spell Eater 3/day
8. Resist Magic
9. Power Surge
10. Spell Eater 4/day, Bonus Feat
11. Null Aura 5ft radius
12. Spell Mirror
13. Spell Eater 5/day
14. Bonus Feat
15. Null Aura 10 ft radius
16. Spell Eater 6/day
17. Spell Fragmentation
18. Bonus Feat
19. Spell Eater 7/day
20. Null Aura 15 ft radius, Null Mastery

Detect Magic: At first level, the mage hunter can detect the presence or absence of magic at will. This works similar the paladin’s Detect Evil as mentioned under Paladin in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook, except it works as the Detect Magic spell instead of Detect Evil. This, like all of the mage hunter’s abilities, works against both divine and arcane spells.
Spell Eater: At first level, the mage hunter once a day can absorb a magical spell cast on him and convert it to health. The spell must be a level 6 spell or less. When this occurs, the mage hunter is healed 1d6 per level of the spell cast (max 6d6). The amount of times per day increases by one at 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th, and 19th level, to a total of 7/day at 19th level.
Spell Breaker: At second level, the mage hunter can attempt to negate a spell being cast by rolling a counter spell check verses the opponent’s caster check. The mage hunter’s modifier for this check is equal to his mage hunter class level +Int modifier. This ability is resolved the same way as counterspells in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook under the chapter on Magic, and requires a readied action to perform.
Bonus Feat: The eclectic nature of the mage hunter typically leads them to specialize in a particular type of weapon, usually exotic. At second level and ever four levels afterwards, the mage hunter gets a bonus feat from the following list – however, the mage hunter must still meet the prerequisites for the feat:
· Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Improved Critical, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Pinpoint Targeting, Shot on the Run, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dazzling Display, Shatter Defenses, Deadly Stroke, Greater Weapon Focus, Penetrating Strike, Greater Penetrating Strike, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization
Arcane Break: A mage hunter can make a Disable Device check to disarm magical traps or disengage magical locks.
Power Surge: At fourth level, the mage hunter can use spell eater to power up an attack instead of healing. The attack gains a temporary bonus to one attack roll and damage roll equal to the level of the spell being cast. This does not stack with any other weapon enhancement, and must be used on the mage hunter’s next turn or the energy dissipates. If the attack misses, the bonus to damage is also lost.
Track Magic: At fifth level, a mage hunter gains the ability to track a spell caster, magical creature, or construct by “smelling” the residual magic left by their passage. This is resolved as normal tracking, by the use of the survival skill. A mage hunter adds one half his level, rounded down, to the survival check to track magic.
Resist Magic: At eighth level, the mage hunter gains the ability to resist magic. The spell resistance is 10+ one half his level in this class. This ability is not in effect when the mage hunter is attempting to use Spell Breaker.
Backlash: At ninth level, a mage hunter can use Spell Eater to cause damage to the spell caster instead of healing himself or improving his next attack. The damage is 1d6 for every two spell levels of the spell being interrupted. The targeted spell caster can make a reflex save equal to 10 + the mage hunter’s level in order to take half damage.
Null Aura: At eleventh level, the mage hunter can create spherical anti-magic field centered on himself as a swift action, extending out to all adjacent to him (5 ft radius or 1 square). This suppresses the effect of all ongoing magic and magic-related abilities, such as magical items and the mage hunter’s other abilities relating to magic (Detect Magic, Spell Eater, Arcane Break, Power Surge, Track Magic, etc.). It also prevents the casting and effects of spells within the zone. At 15th level it increases to a 10 ft radius (2 squares), and at 20th level the null aura increases to a 15 ft radius.
Spell Mirror: At 12th level, the mage hunter gains the ability to use Spell Eater to reflect a spell cast on him back onto the caster.
Spell Fragmentation: At 17th level, the mage hunter gains greater mastery of his Null Aura. He can choose to half the effectiveness of spells cast within his Null Aura instead of creating a zone of total suppression. Magical items are not affected by this weaker aura. If the spell requires a damage or healing roll, it has half the effect (normal dice roll x one half). Saving throws to resist a spell get a +3 bonus, and saves for a spell to do half damage completely negate the damage instead.
Null Mastery: At 20th level, the mage hunter gains full control over his null aura and can choose to exclude anyone within the field from being affected by it. Whoever is excluded from the effect can cast spells as normal, but gains no benefit or protection from the null aura. Spells from those who are excluded work as normal, even if the target is affected by the Null aura

I really tried to balance out the abilities to keep them potent without overwhelmingly so, to the inclusion of a few negatives that are eventually negated at level 20. When there isn't something magic related around, the mage hunter is designed to be a halfway decent skirmisher or backup skill monkey. As Int. is the primary stat, I thought having the skills at 4+Int as sufficiant (and it helps balance the mage hunter with the Bard and Rogue). Sure, he's worthless in a low/no magic campaign, but a DM would be silly to allow this type of class into that type of campaign.

Thoughts?

 

[john112364]

I like it. Without actually playing one it doesn't seem over or under powered. But player better make sure they're going to be facing lots of magical threats or they're liable to be frustrated. (This was never a problem when I played or ran 3e so it shouldn't be too much of a problem).



I do have a couple of questions though:

1. Why "Use Magical Device" as a skill? I guess you could rationalize it as knowing magic so well that you can get items to work, but it strikes me as odd fit for someone who is anti-magic.
2. What rationale would you give for working with other spell casters? Null mastery specifically allows them to let casters cast their spells. Granted they're 20th level by this time but it was stated that they believe magic does more harm than good. I guess they can make exceptions on a case by case basis.
3. What kind of action is Spelleater, Spellbreaker, Null Aura and all their related effects?
4. What is the duration of Null Aura? I assume (since it's a swift action) that they can turn it on and off. It seems rather powerful if they can leave it on indefinitely.

Overall, I really like this concept. I wish I had this class when I was working on a homebrew campaign with Arcane hating priests. I could see tweaking this to work with that.

 

[Sigurd]

How does spell Eating Work

So a 1st level mage hunter finds himself on the receiving end of a fireball. Its a third level spell and only half of his spell level limit from the first day in this class. It took 5 levels for the wizard to be able to cast it. A bead of flame is conjured by the wizard and goes hurtling to the vicinity of the mage hunter intending to do damage in a radius of 20'.

So a first level mage hunter simply says, 'No, I eat the spell' and it all undoes?


You know that to cast a 6th level spell a wizard has to be 11th level.

 

[john112364]

So a 1st level mage hunter finds himself on the receiving end of a fireball. Its a third level spell and only half of his spell level limit from the first day in this class. It took 5 levels for the wizard to be able to cast it. A bead of flame is conjured by the wizard and goes hurtling to the vicinity of the mage hunter intending to do damage in a radius of 20'.

So a first level mage hunter simply says, 'No, I eat the spell' and it all undoes?


You know that to cast a 6th level spell a wizard has to be 11th level.

Good point. I totally overlooked that myself. Maybe the ability can be modified to reqire a sucessful save and it would only be negated for the mage hunter. I would also add that spelleater only works on spells that would be affected by spell resistance. (Keep in mind that I'm going off 3e rules. I'm not sure if Pathfinder made any changes to SR rules.)

 

[Glade Riven]

I like it. Without actually playing one it doesn't seem over or under powered. But player better make sure they're going to be facing lots of magical threats or they're liable to be frustrated. (This was never a problem when I played or ran 3e so it shouldn't be too much of a problem).

Well, that comes down to the DM.

I do have a couple of questions though:

1. Why "Use Magical Device" as a skill? I guess you could rationalize it as knowing magic so well that you can get items to work, but it strikes me as odd fit for someone who is anti-magic.
2. What rationale would you give for working with other spell casters? Null mastery specifically allows them to let casters cast their spells. Granted they're 20th level by this time but it was stated that they believe magic does more harm than good. I guess they can make exceptions on a case by case basis.
3. What kind of action is Spelleater, Spellbreaker, Null Aura and all their related effects?
4. What is the duration of Null Aura? I assume (since it's a swift action) that they can turn it on and off. It seems rather powerful if they can leave it on indefinitely.

And to answer..

1. It seemed logical, given they can (eventually) disarm magical traps and have a need for arcane knowledge.
2. The same reason a Paladin works with a rogue. It seems like bad form to have it so that a mage hunter couldn't at least work with a PC of a spellcasting class. I think it would cause problems at the table if I didn't allow for some leeway.
3. Spelleater: I'm thinking about having it as an immediete interupt, but the player would lose their next turn; Spellbreaker works exactly like counterspell, except without having to cast that exact spell - so it probably takes as long as what is being cast; Null is a swift action to turn on or off, but it supresses all magical effects (meaining the fighter's +3 longsword of firey doom is rendered back to masterwork only status while in the null - until later levels). It makes a lot of expensive doodads worthless.
4. Null probably needs the most refinement for balancing. Perhaps a caster check could be used to cast into it successfully (vs CMD?)

Overall, I really like this concept. I wish I had this class when I was working on a homebrew campaign with Arcane hating priests. I could see tweaking this to work with that.

Glad you like!

So a 1st level mage hunter finds himself on the receiving end of a fireball. Its a third level spell and only half of his spell level limit from the first day in this class. It took 5 levels for the wizard to be able to cast it. A bead of flame is conjured by the wizard and goes hurtling to the vicinity of the mage hunter intending to do damage in a radius of 20'.

So a first level mage hunter simply says, 'No, I eat the spell' and it all undoes?

Good point. Hrm...perhaps I can put the CMB/CMD mechanic to good use. Logically it would be weird, though, having it STR or DEX playing a factor in a battle over WILL, INT, or CHA. The convienence is that the number is already on the sheet. Mage Hunters CMB/CMD vs. enemy Caster check may work, and makes slightly more sense...

 

[Sigurd]

There are rules for counterspelling.

In your case I'd imagine the mage hunter concentrates and reconcentrates on dispel magic. Seriously, for balance you have to try the existing rules before you simply throw out character abilities. Right now the reflection of this would be an 'Arcane Disarmer' that removes only one characters equipped weapons to the astral plane - no save, no resistance. I can't readily say its balanced because its limited to only one attacker.

Most Encounters are decided in the first 3 rounds, often the first one.

This class is game breaking.



Make up a wizard or Sorcerer and see what happens if they only concentrate on dispelling and counter spelling. When their done how much character do they have outside of the concept. Trade that character for other abilities. If nothing else you'll learn the existing rules really well.


Sigurd

 

[milo]

This class is as overpowered as a paladin. And what I mean by that is that it is only as powerful as the DM lets it be. If someone plays this class and the DM uses spellcasters heavily then this class will shine, just like a paladin fighting evil enemies. I have been in games where this would have been horribly game breaking and some games where this would be a 5th character who specializes in doing nothing and gaining XP while everybody else clears the way.
I think the biggest way to balance the class out so that it can be used in any campaign though is null mastery being used for 1 minute per level, in 1 minute increments. Still give them the option to turn it off ahead of time though.
And scale spell eater,1st lvl-lvl 1 spells, 2nd lvl-lvl 2, 4th lvl-lvl 3, 6th lvl-lvl 4....
That way you don't have a 1st level character who can negate an action of a level 11 character.

 

[Glade Riven]

There are rules for counterspelling.
This class is game breaking.

Well, no class is balanced on the first draft. The Counterspelling rules do come into play.

Spell Eater: How about having the class use a Will Save vs. the typical save check (spell level + caster level + caster stat bonus)? Success, Spell Eater works. Failure, spell is resolved like normal. Spell Eater is an immediate interrupt, but the character loses their next turn. Initiative line-up does not change.

Spell Breaker: Works like a spellcaster using Dispel in a counterspell action. The Mage Hunter must ready an action to use it, just like counterspell. The "caster level" of the Mage Hunter for this is Mage Hunter level + Wis Modifier (changed from Int modifier above).

Null: I like the time limit idea. How about having last 1 minute for every Mage Hunter level -10 (starting at 1 minute) as a daily limit? I think adding a caster check vs. the Mage Hunter's CMD to cast into a Null Aura would help balance it out.

Any commentary on the bonus feats I'm using to fill in the blanks?

BTW, what sort of evil DM throws an 11th level wizard verses level 1 players?

 

[Sigurd]

You might be able to set up spell eater like spell breaker. If the MH sees the result of the spell it is too late to interrupt it.

If you are using the counterspelling rules, you can limit the MH to dispel magic but give it to him an obscene number of times per day for the sake of this ability.

The MH would have to make a spellcraft check to understand the type of spell being cast. He\she would be tied up watching the other spellcaster so he is committing to the action.

If he spoils the spell perhaps he could do it with penalties to the caster. These might scale with success of the counterspell attempt (ie rolls 5 over or 10)


Sigurd

 

[Glade Riven]

That suggestion is excessively and needlessly convoluted, something that I try to avoid in game mechanics. Spell Eater still requires that the spell is targeting the Mage Hunter.

Spell Eater (cleaned up): As an immediate interupt, a mage hunter can roll a will save to negate and absorb a spell in which he is the target. The will save must equal or surpass the caster level + spell level + ability modifier of the opponent caster. If successful, the absorbed spell heals the mage hunter for 1d6 per spell level. It cannot heal above the character's maximum health. Area effect spells can be negated by Spell Eater, but the effect of spell eater is personal and does not negate or affect anything else caught in the spell. If the spell fails, the spell plays out as written in the spell description, including saving throws or spell resistance if listed. Whether spell eater succeeds or fails, the next turn of the mage hunter has been spent. This does not change his place in the initiative order. Spell Eater does not function against spells of 7th level or higher. This ability can only be used once a round, and only if a player would be capable of making a full round action on his next turn. At first level, Spell Eater can only be used 1/day, this increases at higher levels as marked on the Mage Hunter advancment chart.

It would play out like this:

DM: The evil mage points his finger at you and cackles as a glowing red ray fires from the tip (rolls range touch success). The beam strikes you in the chest.
MH Player: I use Spell Eater (rolls d20, comes up nat 20)
DM: Success! The beam wavers and blurs, then is sucked into your body, healing it instead (Player rolls 2d6 to heal, as Scorching Ray is a 2nd level spell). The evil mage screams in anguish at being thwarted!

I don't think this is too potent - all a DM has to do is have two mages targeting a Mage Hunter in a single round.