Tales and Chronicles
Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
I gave Barkskin a Damage Reduction of 3 (ala Heavy Armor Master) and avantage to hide in foliage added to the usual AC cant be lower than 16.
D&D 5E Homebrew: Removing Concentration From The Less Popular Spells
- Thread starter MonkeezOnFire
- Start date
Horwath
Legend
I would do it so that you can concentrate on number of spell levels equal to your highest spell level slot.
So 1st level caster can concentrate on 1 spell level, 5th on 3 spell levels total, 11th on 6 spell levels and 17th on 9 spell level total. Might add that 20th level can concentrate on 10 spell levels.
Cantrips are considered 1st level spell.
I do not mind concentration breaking through damage, but I would put spell concentration check as spellcasting ability mod + proficiency.
So 1st level caster can concentrate on 1 spell level, 5th on 3 spell levels total, 11th on 6 spell levels and 17th on 9 spell level total. Might add that 20th level can concentrate on 10 spell levels.
Cantrips are considered 1st level spell.
I do not mind concentration breaking through damage, but I would put spell concentration check as spellcasting ability mod + proficiency.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Something like that isn't bad. I was thinking of the same sort of idea but make it equal to your proficiency bonus, so up to 6 spell levels worth of spells.
This. I don't care if they're weaker or of lower duration--buff stacks are still buff stacks. Not only are they cheesy and time consuming, but they remove an element of choice from the game. Why engage with the question of which buff is best if the answer can be "All of them"?
Interesting thread. I agree with the many of the OP thoughts, though I too like the concentration mechanic. I think 5e spell design fell victim to its simplified design and many spells could have used a second pass and/or more play-testing. I'm not so sanguine about blanket removing concentration from a large number of spells, though I agree some could use it.
The devs seem to have made it so that most ongoing effects (other than purely utility spells) require Concentration with a few exceptions such as Mage Armor, Mirror Image and such. I would rather, in some cases, work with under-performing spells to improve them rather than blanket removing concentration in all but a few instances.
Of these I think only Flame Blade would be markedly improved by removing Concentration, the others have too many other problems. Witch Bolt still has poor range and effect for a poor action economy, though it would finally allow a True Strike plus Witch Bolt combination that many initially voiced as the saving grace of the spell (The less said about how beneficial that combo actually is, the better). Vampiric Touch does cantrip damage (to cast this, you have to be a 5th level caster, when your cantrips go up in damage) for a pitiful amount of healing, in melee...over multiple rounds. Not even many gish type builds would take advantage of this much, especially since EKs wouldn't see this spell (if they happen to spend one of their 'free school' picks on it to begin with) until very high levels.
I would rather keep the Concentration of Witch Bolt and have it Grapple the target, with the target getting a chance to make a STR athletics or DEX acrobatics check to escape the grapple at the end of each round to get free and end the spell. Keeps in line with the flavor of the spell and gives it some teeth.
I would make Vampiric Touch an instantaneous touch spell that does 7d6 (or so) necrotic damage to the target, giving half to the caster as healing. This is still risky, but can be worth the risk as it does much more damage to the target right away (thus increasing the likelihood of dropping it) and gives a more significant healing boost. Plus it could be cast through a familiar.
Not so sure about this one, as I don't want a return of "pre-flight" buffing check-lists and scry-and-fry of 3e, though I realize that is more difficult to do in 5e even without concentration. I get the impression that Stoneskin is supposed to be used to buff an ally, though even then it is not exactly superlative. I would modify it to have its protection count against magical weapon attacks (like blade ward) as well as give advantage on Con saves. This might make it worth the Concentration and component cost, plus help with keeping concentration. Protection from Energy could use an "At higher levels..." line that allowed for an additional target for each added slot level. Protection From Evil and Good is probably a bit too narrow now that alignment does not play directly into it, I would change it to protect against all creature types that are not Humaniod or Beast.
I'm less sure about these, though I realize that they are more likely to be used in melee.
I could get behind this. I think most Smite spells could have been reactions, to cast after you successfully strike an opponent and not needing concentration (though the ones with ongoing effects could still require concentration). This might make them too powerful/easy though. Spells like Hunter's Mark, I would perhaps give Rangers an ability at level X to ignore concentration checks on the spell due to damage, similar to the ability Conjurers get with Conjurations. This prevents those who 'raid' the Ranger spell list from immediately getting the benefit as well.
Some additional spells I would consider outright dropping concentration on:
Flame Arrows - This spell really does not need it, and it seems kind of petty to add it, though it falls into the augment weapon attacks above, it deserves special mention.
Flesh to Stone - The target already has to fail an initial save to get a temporary intermediate debuff (thereby making creatures with legendary resistance likely to shrug the spell off entirely), then the fail 3 before making 3 mechanic before the final (though permanent) effect is applied. Concentration makes the spell too costly. Without Concentration, its not like the spell will be flung about willy-nilly until the very highest levels, as sixth level spell slots are too precious.
The devs seem to have made it so that most ongoing effects (other than purely utility spells) require Concentration with a few exceptions such as Mage Armor, Mirror Image and such. I would rather, in some cases, work with under-performing spells to improve them rather than blanket removing concentration in all but a few instances.
Of these I think only Flame Blade would be markedly improved by removing Concentration, the others have too many other problems. Witch Bolt still has poor range and effect for a poor action economy, though it would finally allow a True Strike plus Witch Bolt combination that many initially voiced as the saving grace of the spell (The less said about how beneficial that combo actually is, the better). Vampiric Touch does cantrip damage (to cast this, you have to be a 5th level caster, when your cantrips go up in damage) for a pitiful amount of healing, in melee...over multiple rounds. Not even many gish type builds would take advantage of this much, especially since EKs wouldn't see this spell (if they happen to spend one of their 'free school' picks on it to begin with) until very high levels.
I would rather keep the Concentration of Witch Bolt and have it Grapple the target, with the target getting a chance to make a STR athletics or DEX acrobatics check to escape the grapple at the end of each round to get free and end the spell. Keeps in line with the flavor of the spell and gives it some teeth.
I would make Vampiric Touch an instantaneous touch spell that does 7d6 (or so) necrotic damage to the target, giving half to the caster as healing. This is still risky, but can be worth the risk as it does much more damage to the target right away (thus increasing the likelihood of dropping it) and gives a more significant healing boost. Plus it could be cast through a familiar.
Not so sure about this one, as I don't want a return of "pre-flight" buffing check-lists and scry-and-fry of 3e, though I realize that is more difficult to do in 5e even without concentration. I get the impression that Stoneskin is supposed to be used to buff an ally, though even then it is not exactly superlative. I would modify it to have its protection count against magical weapon attacks (like blade ward) as well as give advantage on Con saves. This might make it worth the Concentration and component cost, plus help with keeping concentration. Protection from Energy could use an "At higher levels..." line that allowed for an additional target for each added slot level. Protection From Evil and Good is probably a bit too narrow now that alignment does not play directly into it, I would change it to protect against all creature types that are not Humaniod or Beast.
I'm less sure about these, though I realize that they are more likely to be used in melee.
I could get behind this. I think most Smite spells could have been reactions, to cast after you successfully strike an opponent and not needing concentration (though the ones with ongoing effects could still require concentration). This might make them too powerful/easy though. Spells like Hunter's Mark, I would perhaps give Rangers an ability at level X to ignore concentration checks on the spell due to damage, similar to the ability Conjurers get with Conjurations. This prevents those who 'raid' the Ranger spell list from immediately getting the benefit as well.
Some additional spells I would consider outright dropping concentration on:
Flame Arrows - This spell really does not need it, and it seems kind of petty to add it, though it falls into the augment weapon attacks above, it deserves special mention.
Flesh to Stone - The target already has to fail an initial save to get a temporary intermediate debuff (thereby making creatures with legendary resistance likely to shrug the spell off entirely), then the fail 3 before making 3 mechanic before the final (though permanent) effect is applied. Concentration makes the spell too costly. Without Concentration, its not like the spell will be flung about willy-nilly until the very highest levels, as sixth level spell slots are too precious.
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DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
I just had a thought...
What if the target of a concentration spell can remove the concentration requirement but it uses one of the target's attunement slots (without the one hour requirement)? If a concentration spell targets multiple creatures or objects, you cannot use this feature (or maybe every target must all use an attunement slot?). If you like the idea but don't want it as a free feature, make this ability a feat or per use class feature for spellcasting or something.
This way, low magic item games could garner more use from magic spells, and in ones with more magical items you would have to choose more.
Any appeal?
What if the target of a concentration spell can remove the concentration requirement but it uses one of the target's attunement slots (without the one hour requirement)? If a concentration spell targets multiple creatures or objects, you cannot use this feature (or maybe every target must all use an attunement slot?). If you like the idea but don't want it as a free feature, make this ability a feat or per use class feature for spellcasting or something.
This way, low magic item games could garner more use from magic spells, and in ones with more magical items you would have to choose more.
Any appeal?
I think it might work if you add an arcana check or something & magic items went back to the old graduated versions instead of 5e's zero to 1000 like how it was +2/+4/+6 ability items with some very magical ones as opposed to 5e's ability = 19 & they brought back the old magic item slot rules. It's nice to consider hypothetical ultra low magic item games, but it's possible to have low magic items without having none.
abirdcall
(she/her)
In order for homebrew to be well designed and effective I believe it needs to follow KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid.
In that regard removing Concentration from spells in order to buff them is a good solution. I recommend against tweaking the spells further to avoid clutter and to keep the document as a resource for this very purpose. If people want to change spells further they can.
In that regard removing Concentration from spells in order to buff them is a good solution. I recommend against tweaking the spells further to avoid clutter and to keep the document as a resource for this very purpose. If people want to change spells further they can.
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