Homebrewed (Solo) Monsters vs Stun

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

So you create an awesome solo as the climactic finish to this story arc. You're ready with banter and perhaps a short soliloquy.

You design an interesting setting for the encounter, with varied terrain, hazards, and lots of room to move.

Then the players show up, stun lock the BBEG, and the combat ends some number of rounds later after abusing your solo like a cheap bed in an hourly-rate hotel.

Having learned your lesson, how are you designing your solos now to avoid this type of situation?

What kind of monster powers do you use to discourage, prevent, or avoid stun locks?

How can terrain, hazards, and other features of the setting help?

(Going first and stun-locking the PCs before they can stun-lock you is highly discouraged.)

 

[ArcaneSpringboard]

Check out the blog, Sly Flourish. Mike has a ton of solutions for that.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Heh. He actually posted just yesterday with a great answer: Epic-Tier Pitfalls | Sly Flourish

Thanks for the tip.

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Any ideas more creative than "the BBEG shakes it off" or "stuns and dazes don't fully stun or daze"?

I'm thinking something:
* if the BBEG gets stun-locked, the roof collapses dealing massive damage to everyone. Or similar environmental effects.
* If the BBEG gets stun-locked, the BBEG summons more help. Of similar effects involving other monsters in the encounters beyond the "solo".
* If the BBEG gets stun-locked, you take your ball and go home. Just kidding

I like his tip to use setting factors (terrain, hazards, features) that negate damage reduction effects, especially if they can be turned off (especially if turning them off involves a skill challenge, I love skill challenges).

 

[fuzzlewump]

Summoning more monsters when stun-locked could work if done interestingly. Perhaps the BBEG is maintaining a dark ritual that feeds him power, but also he keeps it within close control. Upon being stunned or knocked out he can no longer maintain his control and horrible demons spew forth in the gateway where power was trickling forth. The demons, in this scenario, should also eat the BBEG.

The same could apply to a very large thing. It's literally holding up the roof and won't be able to keep it up if stunned or whatever.

 

[Squire James]

My epic solos have "Epic Solo Toughness", which is a free saving throw against any condition except ongoing damage at the start of its turn. It can end a condition that a save can't normally end. However, it only gets one save, so if it suffers from two debilitating conditions at once it will need to deal with the lesser one for an additional turn. I am considering a similar rule for Paragon Solos, perhaps with -5 to the saving throw (and -10 for Heroic Solos?).

My players are more damage-focused than condition-focused anyway, so this rarely comes into play.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think that these days, with the errata that exists, you're only really looking at issues arising from stuns that are "end of next turn", rather than ones endable by saves.

There's been a lot of suggestions that "end of next turn" style effects should also allow a save (for both players and monsters).

 

[FireLance]

I personally like something similar to the "Brutal Shakeoff" option: when a solo monster is stunned, it can lose twice its level in hit points to take a standard action on its turn. The extra damage means that the player still feels good about stunning the monster, especially if the DM colorfully describes how much the monster suffers in order to take that standard action.

Another option could be for the monster to enter a dormant, but almost invulnerable, state when stunned, gaining say a +5 bonus to all defenses and resist 20/30/40 to all damage at heroic/paragon/epic tier. The PCs can't do much to it while it's stunned, but they can catch a breather or concentrate on other opponents.

 

[Mesh Hong]

The system that I use the most because I think it is the most balanced (for my group) is:

Saving Throws +5, monster may make an unmodified (i.e. +0) saving
throw against any one effect at the start of its turn (this includes effects
that do not usually allow a saving throw)

If have also recently used:

Saving Throws all effects that monster is subject to become save ends
effects, monster may make a saving throw with a -2 modifier against each
effect at the start of its turn and a saving throw with a +5 modifier at the
end of each turn

I have only used the second one once and it was quite interesting, in one instance the solo took an until the end of next turn effect and ended up being subject to it for a longer period rather than a shorter one.

I think the key to these sort of powers is not just to arbitarily stop the PCs powers working but make it less likely that an effect or quick chain of effects doesn't lock the creature down for more than one or two turns. In my experience players love to see a creature fail a saving throw or two and hate it when their PCs powers are just completely ignored.

Personally I think my first example is the most balanced system (for my group at least) because they can stack different until end of next turn effects an know that only one of them might be brushed aside, while maintaining an air of uncertainty as to whether the creature will make its unmodified save.

 

[napoleonbuff]

I give all solos an extra standard action (believe this was suggested in the DMG, but for some reason wasn't implemented in the MMs). I make this extra standard action immune to stun & daze effects (so only unconscious would cancel it).

In addition, at the end of a solo's turn, certain effects are downgraded: unconscious becomes stunned; stunned becomes dazed; dazed becomes combat advantage.

Also, whenever a solo is bloodied, these effects are immediately downgraded.

I find that this enables these effects to still be worth using, but not overpowering.