D&D 5E Homebrewed Warlock Patron: The Paradox

Undrave

Hero
All the recent Warlock talk made me want to create a new patron, for fun! Check it out and tell me what you think:


EDIT: I started working on some additional invocations.
EDIT 2: I now have an Invocation for each pact and a generic one.
EDIT 3: It is now finalized thanks to DND_Reborn's help! Feel free to use it!
 
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Undrave

Hero
Before anybody ask, I didn't include Chronurgy spells because I don't have Wildemount. I also didn't want to make it dependant on something other than the PHB.

EDIT: Huh...Wildemount didn't give any new spells to Warlocks... laaaame!

I might have a few Invocations to add in there too later
Anything weird that plays with the concept of time is a win to me.
Glad you like it!
I love the 14th level feature!
Thanks! I had a few other ideas but I figured something that can be used as a support move would work well with the rest of the subclass.
 
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DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I love the 14th level feature!
I like the concept but it is too powerful IMO. Now, if you had a save to cause double damage, then maybe...

Time Jaunt is also too powerful with unlimited uses. Every single round you can avoid danger. Your turn comes up, you take your action, etc. then use your Bonus action to disappear in time. At the start of your next turn, you reappear up to 15 feet away, use your action, and Bonus action to disappear again to absolute safety, and so on...

Future Thief is also too strong with unlimited uses.

Glimpse Through Time is decent, but I would use Charisma bonus, not proficiency (I know WotC is moving in this direction, but it isn't a move I particularly like).

All that being said... as for theme, I find it fitting. It is probably the most unique theme I have read for a Warlock Patron. If this was in the current Survivor thread, I would be upvoting it (which FYI is a BIG deal since I am upvoting currently only because I have to... I don't really like any of them or the Warlock class in general).
 

Undrave

Hero
I like the concept but it is too powerful IMO. Now, if you had a save to cause double damage, then maybe...

Time Jaunt is also too powerful with unlimited uses. Every single round you can avoid danger. Your turn comes up, you take your action, etc. then use your Bonus action to disappear in time. At the start of your next turn, you reappear up to 15 feet away, use your action, and Bonus action to disappear again to absolute safety, and so on...

Future Thief is also too strong with unlimited uses.

Glimpse Through Time is decent, but I would use Charisma bonus, not proficiency (I know WotC is moving in this direction, but it isn't a move I particularly like).

All that being said... as for theme, I find it fitting. It is probably the most unique theme I have read for a Warlock Patron. If this was in the current Survivor thread, I would be upvoting it (which FYI is a BIG deal since I am upvoting currently only because I have to... I don't really like any of them or the Warlock class in general).
Oops! Time Jaunt is prof. bonus per long rest, I forgot to copy paste that part when moving to the Homebrewery. Obviously, unlimited Jaunts are way too strong.

Hmm.. maybe Future Thief could be when a creature reaches 0 HP in your vicinity? That way it's a little more limited in use?

Bonus to Init equal to CHA is not a bad idea either!
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Oops! Time Jaunt is prof. bonus per long rest, I forgot to copy paste that part when moving to the Homebrewery.
Yeah, much better.

Hmm.. maybe Future Thief could be when a creature reaches 0 HP in your vicinity? That way it's a little more limited in use?
Sure, that would make it limiting. Otherwise you would have replenishing temp hit points nearly every round...

Bonus to Init equal to CHA is not a bad idea either!
Unless they update other subclasses to use prof bonus as well (like Swashbuckler), I would go this route.

Make the 14th level feature a save vs. your spell DC instead of automatic for double damage, and I think this would be a very solid subclass! However, by adding the save it is less predictable, and it would suck for the player if they used it and it doesn't work due to a made save. Perhaps it doesn't get "used" unless the save is failed?
 


Undrave

Hero
Make the 14th level feature a save vs. your spell DC instead of automatic for double damage, and I think this would be a very solid subclass! However, by adding the save it is less predictable, and it would suck for the player if they used it and it doesn't work due to a made save. Perhaps it doesn't get "used" unless the save is failed?
That could work. What would make a good save for this though?

Also, forgot to ask if you like the expanded spell list?
 




DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Maybe... and I could make it half damage on a save so I don't need to overcomplicate the 'once per long rest' part?
I see what you're saying, but how would that work? Let's use an example:

Your party is fighting creature X. The rogue hits for 35 damage! You decide to try to double it to 70 using your feature.

The creature makes the save. So, how much is "half damage"? Would that be half of 70, so back to the original 35? Probably not (certainly not what you meant I believe). You are thinking half the original damage (so 17 as half of 35), making the total damage 52.

According to the DMG, p. 284, a 5th level spell against a single target should do 8d10 damage, or average 44 damage (save for 22).

Now, this feature uses a spell slot (5th) and is limited to once per long rest, so damage should be a bit higher IMO.


Ok, ignore all that... :)

Hurl Through Hell does 10d10 (avg 55) to a creature not a fiend and requires no save, but you must hit with an attack.

In order to use your feature, you (or someone else) must still hit with an attack or cause damage at least. So, I recant my earlier critique. It isn't OP really since I doubt most of the time the damage you will be doubling won't be 55 or higher typically.... However, I would maybe include something about not doing this on a critical hit, otherwise this could be insanely powerful. Food for thought... :unsure:

Also, maybe rewrite it so instead of "double the damage", make it that the target takes psychic damage equal to the amount of damage taken by the attack?
 

Undrave

Hero
Also, maybe rewrite it so instead of "double the damage", make it that the target takes psychic damage equal to the amount of damage taken by the attack?
Oh that's a good idea, it interacts a little nicer with resistances and stuff and is probably easier to perform at the table! I'll go with that.

However, I would maybe include something about not doing this on a critical hit, otherwise this could be insanely powerful. Food for thought...
Or a bit about not including the bonus damage gained by a crit? Or would that get too wonky? Considering the comparison to Hurl Through Hell do you think the spell slot expense is unecessary? Or that balances the extra flexibility?
 

DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
Oh that's a good idea, it interacts a little nicer with resistances and stuff and is probably easier to perform at the table! I'll go with that.
Glad you like it. Like I said before, I really like the thematic concept behind this patron, so I hope my suggestions help!

Or a bit about not including the bonus damage gained by a crit? Or would that get too wonky?
I guess it would just depend on the wording. I don't like excluding it from the feature, but to me it is like smites when you get a crit and the paladin player is like, "Oh, yeah, time to bring on the pain!!!" and unloads a maximum smite. If these things were declared before the crit was rolled, that would be different.

Considering the comparison to Hurl Through Hell do you think the spell slot expense is unecessary? Or that balances the extra flexibility?
It is a hefty price in some ways since you only have 3 slots at 14th level. By comparison to HTH:

in HTH:
  • You have to hit the target.
  • The target is banished until the end of your next turn, allowing every PC the freedom to act without its threat. This allows them to Ready actions for as soon as the creature reappears, including you! I used this tactic against Vecna in one of the sim battles and it is pretty devastating.
  • The 10d10 (avg 55) has no save for half damage.

in MtT:
  • The target can be affected as soon as it takes any damage, not just from you and not from an attack.
  • The damage is immediate, but also limited to the original damage dealt. Unless this is a critical hit or a "big spell" like failed disintegrate or something, you are likely doing less damage than HTH.
  • It uses your reaction.
  • It costs a 5th level spell slot.

I think the spell slot is unnecessary really. You have greater flexibility in how the damage occurs, but there is no "safety round" for the PCs and the damage is likely less.

I see potential for abuse, but that is true of most features...
 

Undrave

Hero
Glad you like it. Like I said before, I really like the thematic concept behind this patron, so I hope my suggestions help!
I've reworked the Patron using your suggestions and I even started working on a couple of Eldritch Invocations. They don't make Patron specific invocations, sadly (I would have made one that buffed Glimpse Through Time) but I still wanted to keep up with some of the thematic ideas of the Patron so that a player could pick them and they would still feel in theme. I got a generic one and I one for every Pact, but I'm not sure how good they are.
 


DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
I've reworked the Patron using your suggestions and I even started working on a couple of Eldritch Invocations. They don't make Patron specific invocations, sadly (I would have made one that buffed Glimpse Through Time) but I still wanted to keep up with some of the thematic ideas of the Patron so that a player could pick them and they would still feel in theme. I got a generic one and I one for every Pact, but I'm not sure how good they are.
I showed this to a couple players over the weekend, they also both loved it!

I think once you have a concrete version done, I'll probably add it to my homebrew/house-rules because I think this is a genius theme/concept for Warlock!

Excellent work! (y) :)

EDIT: I'll review it more during the week when I have time.
 

Undrave

Hero
I showed this to a couple players over the weekend, they also both loved it!

I think once you have a concrete version done, I'll probably add it to my homebrew/house-rules because I think this is a genius theme/concept for Warlock!
Thank you! It makes me really happy that you players liked it and that you want to make it available in your game!
 

Undrave

Hero
EDIT: I'll review it more during the week when I have time.
Someone pointed out to me that the first level feature is now very similar to the Fiend one, and that kinda bugs me... Maybe I could make the Temp HP smaller but make it so you can give them to someone else too so it's more of a support feature than a selfish feature, even if you can use it that way?

And I'm wondering if the spell slot cost for the 6th level feature is too steep.
 
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