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D&D 5E Homebrewing the Battlemaster and Champion

Chaosmancer

Legend
So banerett already improves second wind. Making that even bigger is what I usually do.

I heavily redid the Banneret. I can post it if people want, but it is quite a bit different in my home-brew than it currently stands

Samurai's advantage is strong. Stronger than champion crit range when active (at cost); advantage gives as much of a crit boost, and an accuracy boost. In games with easy advantage, it is weaker. In games with more fights/day it is weaker. It doesn't match BM even in good situations at 3.

Existence of non damage meanuevers only makes BM stronger, not weaker. Subclasses with mainly only damage shouldn't fall behind damage from subclass with choice of damage or alternatives.

For cavalier, I would compare baselien BM to a Cav that gets its bonus attack every round.

BM 4 16 str 1d10 polearm gwf with pam+gwf on a 15 ac foe. Uses precision and -5/+10.

Over 3 rounds, 1 reaction, 3 bonus, 3 regular, for 4d10(22)+3d4(7.5)+91=120.5. Hits on 14 (35%), crits on a 20(5%).

Before meanuver dice, 43.7 damage.

If use die for missed by 1 to 6, that happens .3 per attack (2.1 total) for 68% of a hit each. Average hit is 17, 11.5 ish per die, for 24 damage.

0.35 crits at 9 damage per crit, for 3 ish damage.

No ripsote. So total of 70ish damage for 2 and a half dice burnt. (out of 4, short rest refresh)

Same cavalier, but gs, 18 str, gwm, and -5/+10 with advantage bonus attack.

6 taps. 8+ on normal for 11 (70% hit), 13+ on bonus for 23 (64% hit). 0.45 crits for +7 each. about 70 damage.

Uses 3/4 daily punishment uses used. Same damage.

Cavalier also imposed disadvantage on the attacks that ignored them.

In ideal circumstances, Cav just bearely matches simple BM.

I mean, a sentinal Cav that was ignored might exceed BM damage?

I'm going to admit man, you are throwing a lot of stream of consciousness snippets at me, and I'm having a hard time parsing them into full ideas and arguments.

The idea that the Champion at level 3 should match the Battlemaster using all damage abilities at level 3 is a bit problematic for me, because like I said, the Battlemaster might not have all damage maneuvers. This is important, because if the Champion matches the Battlemaster who is going all out damage, then they are more powerful than most other Battlemasters. Now, I get the argument that the Battlemaster has choices and that makes them more powerful, but the point of the Battlemaster is to have choices, and the point of choices is to choose your power level.

If the Battlemaster is the most powerful subclass at all levels, then we need to buff the other fighters perhaps, but we need to do it equally. And if right now the Battlemaster is the most powerful subclass, but the other subclasses are just about equal, then I'm fairly okay with that. But, you keep comparing everyone to the Battlemaster, and I was talking more about whether or not they are all balanced among themselves.

Also, you compared a Variant Human level 4 Battlemaster fighter with Polearm Mastery and Great Weapon Master with a Cavalier with 18 str, a Greatsword and Great Weapon Master. There is already a disconnect here by showing a fighter with a native 3 attacks (allowing for a +39 damage) compared to one with two native attacks (for +28). The Cavalier does match with their mark ability, but that shows a fairly solid balance. When I would be balancing a subclass for the fighter, unless otherwise inappropriate (Arcane Archer) I try and focus on using a Longsword and Shield, no feats. This is because balance between them shouldn't rely on also answering the question "Is Polearm Master Balanced against getting a +2 strength". You have to compare comparable builds, with as few feats and such as possible, then look into if any feats should be considered.

As most subclasses fall behind BM, and I like BM, I like adding second wind riders to every other subclass. And maybe a lesser one for BM, like "if you have 0 dice left, you get one back" at, mid high levels.

I can understand that sentiment, I'm just not sure how much I agree.
 

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Chaosmancer

Legend
Yes, it's powerful, but the fighter is out-damaged by other fighting classes and you're assuming it's used for combat. Action Surge can be an escape power (running away) or as a second chance power (e.g. a second chance of grabbing someone who's fallen into a river), in diplomatic settings ("Forgive my slip of the tongue..."), and so on.

I have never seen Action Surge used in a diplomatic setting, because we usually don't care about the action economy in those, so getting a second action isn't terribly useful. I know it can be used for running away, but that generally would require leaving other allies behind, not something I see most players using.

So, that leaves second chances (a rare use, but one I have seen) and combat.

Also, I have to say, I think you are dead wrong about the Fighter being out-damaged by other classes. Maybe by the paladin, but the Ranger and Barbarian are not usually going to be out-damaging the fighter. And I would not be surprised to learn that the Paladin would struggle to keep up with a high-level action surge fighter on that turn. And you want that to extend for 6 turns? I could never allow that at my table.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
The idea that the Champion at level 3 should match the Battlemaster using all damage abilities at level 3 is a bit problematic for me, because like I said, the Battlemaster might not have all damage maneuvers. This is important, because if the Champion matches the Battlemaster who is going all out damage, then they are more powerful than most other Battlemasters.

No.

The battlemaster who picked non-damage preferred non-damage over damage. They looked at the damage choice, and said "I can do better".

So the resulting BM is, in the opinion of the player, better than the BM that just does damage.

The Champion, if it is worse than the high damage BM, is (in at least the eyes of the BM player) even worse.

I mean, if you give one kid a choice between 100$ and 10$, and then you say "it isn't fair for the other kid to get 100$, because the first kid could pick 10$, and that wouldn't be fair to the first kid", that is what you are saying looks like to me.

---

And practically, if the champion is significantly worse than the damage BM, then a less damagy BM gets to match the Champion at the only thing they do (damage) and do other fun stuff.

So what I do is aim to make the champion approach BM damage and give it significant other fun stuff.

In my case, that is extra healing dice on second wind (for extra), plus an attack on second wind (which helps them keep up with BM damage output).

A naive 18 str BM using a greatsword and who burns dice only doing damage in a 3 round fight at level 5 against AC 16, and takes defensive fighting style (because GWF math is annoying):
hits on 10+, crits on 20. Makes 8 attacks (action surge) for 16d6 +32 for 56 dice (0.6) and 32 static (.55), plus 4d8 (18) is 69.2 damage over 3 rounds. And has riders on 4 attacks.

The same champion gets 9 attacks (action surge, second wind), heals an extra 2d10 HP (11). Crits on a 19+. So 63 * .65 + 36 * .55 is 62.05 damage.

So letting the champion roll +1/2 fighter level additional d10s and giving them an extra attack on second wind ends up with the champion being about on-par with a low damage BM build.

The high damage BM build is over 100 HP of damage here. There is a lot of room to upgrade the champion without running into the BM.

---

Another idea I have played with is letting the champion make a free shove or grapple on their turn on a foe they hit, granting advantage if they crit. This gives the champion some dynamism. But it sort of overlaps with BM maneuvers.

The BM is such a strong subclass, I have considered smashing together multiple subclasses to match it. Like Samurai+Champion.

Also, you compared a Variant Human level 4 Battlemaster fighter with Polearm Mastery and Great Weapon Master with a Cavalier with 18 str, a Greatsword and Great Weapon Master. There is already a disconnect here by showing a fighter with a native 3 attacks (allowing for a +39 damage) compared to one with two native attacks (for +28). The Cavalier does match with their mark ability, but that shows a fairly solid balance
The Cavalier had a use for the bonus action every turn.

I also gave that Cavalier an enemy who utterly ignores them and gives them free bonus action attacks with advantage every turn.

And when I did that, the Cavalier still couldn't match the BM's damage output.

As a general rule, if you have a mechanism that punishes foes for doing something, this is worse than just doing the damage in without any requirement on the foes doing something specific.

So the Cavalier in this example had one advantage over the BM -- it imposed disadvantage on those attacks not on them. Which is pretty good.

This is because balance between them shouldn't rely on also answering the question "Is Polearm Master Balanced against getting a +2 strength". You have to compare comparable builds, with as few feats and such as possible, then look into if any feats should be considered.
The Cavalier cannot effectively use PAM. If I gave the above Cavalier PAM, it would become worse, I suspect.

Their damage would drop from 2d6 to 1d10. The 1d4 extra attack wouldn't be used, because the Cavalier is getting their class-based bonus action.

They would get the reaction attack as foes approach.

This dependency on bonus actions to use class features is part of the Cavalier, and it is fair to make a build that uses bonus actions to compete against them.

One of the BM strengths is that it uses zero outside resources for its abilities. Another is that those resources scale really well with other bonuses.

The BM was able to use GWM every attack because precision attack compensates for it. The BM was able to use PAM because it has no use for bonus actions.

Do the same build on a Cavalier, and they lack precision attack, so GWM -5/+10 won't be a significant damage increase on a moderate to high AC foe.

Their class feature relies on using a bonus action to punish, so PAM is less useful, as when their class feature triggers they grant overlapping bonuses.

The inability to use GWM means that the PAM 1d4+3 attack is much smaller at 5.5; the small die size matters more.

---

My goal was to give the Cavalier the ideal situation to deal as much damage as she possibly can. And see if they keep up with the battlemaster.

That is one way to see if there is a damage gap.

It was consuming 1/4 of its subclass daily resources per round, and it required foes to behave in specific ways.

In comparison, the BM had nearly no requirements on foes, consumed about 1/4 of its per-short-rest resources per round, and matched the same damage output.

The BM can do better; if foes attack the BM, ripostes kick in for another pile of damage (which also costs dice, but these are short-rest dice).

I am unaware of a way to make a Cavalier do better.

An ally could use farie fire or knock the foe prone for the Cavalier, enabling -5/+10 on its main attack.

The BM also gains here, but possibly less.
 

Lord Twig

Adventurer
There does seem to be this consensus about Second Wind for all fighters needing a change.

Maybe what I'll do is inverse your change and do NotAYak's change with far smaller scaling. Give every fighter 2d10 at 7th and 3d10 at 13th. Champion can still get two uses. There is nothing wrong with giving multiple uses and then the champion doubling the dice, I just feel like... Fighters can get a lot of pools of resources, and I want to limit how many pools they have to track.
You are right about having another pool to track. Plus NotAYak's of just making the one Second Wind is valid, so switching it around seems like a good idea. How about this:

Second Wind
In addition to its normal benefit, add:
At 5th level the hit points you regain increase to 2d10 + your fighter level, then to 3d10 + your fighter level at 11th and finally to 4d10 + your fighter level at 17th level.

And then for the Champion:
Survivor
In addition to the other benefits, you can now use Second Wind twice before a rest.

While the static amount of healing scales with level, the dice never increase, so the higher the level, the less impactful it is. This change should keep Second Wind roughly proportional to the Fighter's hit points at all levels.
 

Quartz

Hero
I have never seen Action Surge used in a diplomatic setting, because we usually don't care about the action economy in those, so getting a second action isn't terribly useful. I know it can be used for running away, but that generally would require leaving other allies behind, not something I see most players using.

I don't have the PHB to hand but spellcasters have magic, the barbarian has extra movement, the rogue has a special action, and I'm not sure about the monk.

So, that leaves second chances (a rare use, but one I have seen) and combat.

Also, I have to say, I think you are dead wrong about the Fighter being out-damaged by other classes.

We went through this a while back: people forget about attacks from Bonus Actions and Reactions. The Fighter needs to use Action Surge for combat just to stay level. Note also that I'm dropping the extra ASIs at levels 6 and 14, so the Fighter no longer has higher combat stats.

Maybe by the paladin, but the Ranger and Barbarian are not usually going to be out-damaging the fighter. And I would not be surprised to learn that the Paladin would struggle to keep up with a high-level action surge fighter on that turn. And you want that to extend for 6 turns? I could never allow that at my table.

How often are your PCs going to get to that high a level? And are you limiting your thinking to pure combat? That Action Surge could be used in part for movement, zooming round the battlefield, perhaps only attacking half the time.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
No.

The battlemaster who picked non-damage preferred non-damage over damage. They looked at the damage choice, and said "I can do better".

So the resulting BM is, in the opinion of the player, better than the BM that just does damage.

The Champion, if it is worse than the high damage BM, is (in at least the eyes of the BM player) even worse.

I mean, if you give one kid a choice between 100$ and 10$, and then you say "it isn't fair for the other kid to get 100$, because the first kid could pick 10$, and that wouldn't be fair to the first kid", that is what you are saying looks like to me.

Sure, obviously the person who preferred the non-damage option wanted the non-damage option. That is obvious.

But, what you are saying to me is "Behind door one you could choose to take $50, $60, or $70. To be fair to that option door two should only have $70" Well... door two is going to give more money to more people, because it is equal to the highest amount of money the other people could take. Yes, sure, the people who decided on less money made that choice, but that doesn't change that I feel door two should be offering $60, not $70.

---

And practically, if the champion is significantly worse than the damage BM, then a less damagy BM gets to match the Champion at the only thing they do (damage) and do other fun stuff.

So what I do is aim to make the champion approach BM damage and give it significant other fun stuff.

In my case, that is extra healing dice on second wind (for extra), plus an attack on second wind (which helps them keep up with BM damage output).

A naive 18 str BM using a greatsword and who burns dice only doing damage in a 3 round fight at level 5 against AC 16, and takes defensive fighting style (because GWF math is annoying):
hits on 10+, crits on 20. Makes 8 attacks (action surge) for 16d6 +32 for 56 dice (0.6) and 32 static (.55), plus 4d8 (18) is 69.2 damage over 3 rounds. And has riders on 4 attacks.

The same champion gets 9 attacks (action surge, second wind), heals an extra 2d10 HP (11). Crits on a 19+. So 63 * .65 + 36 * .55 is 62.05 damage.

So letting the champion roll +1/2 fighter level additional d10s and giving them an extra attack on second wind ends up with the champion being about on-par with a low damage BM build.

The high damage BM build is over 100 HP of damage here. There is a lot of room to upgrade the champion without running into the BM.

I understand what you are saying. I get it.

However, healing potentially 60 hp on a bonus action is way too much. That is an insane amount of healing. And you gave them an attack on top of it.

And again, sure, the Champion is doing far worse than the battlemaster, and we should try and close that gap. But how much worse is the champion doing compared to the other subclasses? Not how are the other sublcasses stacking up to the Battlemaster. Remove it from the equation for a moment, how does a Champion and an Arcane Archer stack up? Champion and a Samurai? That is what I am more concerned about.

I, again, fully agree that the champion could use a bit more buffing. I just want to avoid "everyone has to match the battlemaster" because the Battlemaster offers a lot of flexibility that is harder to compare.

And, this discussion has made me wonder, if the Champion is struggling so much with damage, maybe a small damage boost is appropriate. But, the entire ideal of the Champion is simplicity... so maybe give the +prof to all damage. At high levels, that is a lot, a total of +18 or +24 damage every turn... actually more because I gave fighters +7 prof as their capstone, so that would be +28 damage per turn. But it isn't so bad at lower levels. Would that close this damage gap to your satisfaction?

The Cavalier had a use for the bonus action every turn.

I also gave that Cavalier an enemy who utterly ignores them and gives them free bonus action attacks with advantage every turn.

And when I did that, the Cavalier still couldn't match the BM's damage output.

As a general rule, if you have a mechanism that punishes foes for doing something, this is worse than just doing the damage in without any requirement on the foes doing something specific.

So the Cavalier in this example had one advantage over the BM -- it imposed disadvantage on those attacks not on them. Which is pretty good.


The Cavalier cannot effectively use PAM. If I gave the above Cavalier PAM, it would become worse, I suspect.

Their damage would drop from 2d6 to 1d10. The 1d4 extra attack wouldn't be used, because the Cavalier is getting their class-based bonus action.

They would get the reaction attack as foes approach.

This dependency on bonus actions to use class features is part of the Cavalier, and it is fair to make a build that uses bonus actions to compete against them.

One of the BM strengths is that it uses zero outside resources for its abilities. Another is that those resources scale really well with other bonuses.

The BM was able to use GWM every attack because precision attack compensates for it. The BM was able to use PAM because it has no use for bonus actions.

Do the same build on a Cavalier, and they lack precision attack, so GWM -5/+10 won't be a significant damage increase on a moderate to high AC foe.

Their class feature relies on using a bonus action to punish, so PAM is less useful, as when their class feature triggers they grant overlapping bonuses.

The inability to use GWM means that the PAM 1d4+3 attack is much smaller at 5.5; the small die size matters more.

---

My goal was to give the Cavalier the ideal situation to deal as much damage as she possibly can. And see if they keep up with the battlemaster.

That is one way to see if there is a damage gap.

It was consuming 1/4 of its subclass daily resources per round, and it required foes to behave in specific ways.

In comparison, the BM had nearly no requirements on foes, consumed about 1/4 of its per-short-rest resources per round, and matched the same damage output.

The BM can do better; if foes attack the BM, ripostes kick in for another pile of damage (which also costs dice, but these are short-rest dice).

I am unaware of a way to make a Cavalier do better.

An ally could use farie fire or knock the foe prone for the Cavalier, enabling -5/+10 on its main attack.

The BM also gains here, but possibly less.

Okay, you can't say they couldn't match the output, when you literally have them matching the output (both had 70). If you are trying to say that the Battlemaster is going to do more damage in later fights... okay. But, I already agree with that. That's why I made the Cavalier recharge on a short rest too.

But again, how much of your analysis is the class damage compared to PAM and GWM? Precision attack is a lot more valuable when it has a +13 static on the damage, instead of +3. If the damage gap is coming purely from their abilities, then you don't need the feats. You don't need the Battlemaster to have PAM and GWM, you don't need the Cavalier to have GWM and you can just show them using the same equipment and the same situation.

That shows a gap in the strength of the subclass. Because "I can take more advantage of these feats" isn't a design flaw in the subclass, because they might not take that feat.

Again, I'm not saying that the Champion doesn't deserve more of a boost. I'm just saying that we need to make sure the comparisons are stripped down to the actual class features, not high-tier builds.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
You are right about having another pool to track. Plus NotAYak's of just making the one Second Wind is valid, so switching it around seems like a good idea. How about this:

Second Wind
In addition to its normal benefit, add:
At 5th level the hit points you regain increase to 2d10 + your fighter level, then to 3d10 + your fighter level at 11th and finally to 4d10 + your fighter level at 17th level.

And then for the Champion:
Survivor
In addition to the other benefits, you can now use Second Wind twice before a rest.

While the static amount of healing scales with level, the dice never increase, so the higher the level, the less impactful it is. This change should keep Second Wind roughly proportional to the Fighter's hit points at all levels.

Agreed. I think other than the fact I would keep the additional second wind as a low level feature, instead of tying it to survivor, this is exactly what I was thinking of.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I don't have the PHB to hand but spellcasters have magic, the barbarian has extra movement, the rogue has a special action, and I'm not sure about the monk.

Generally if you are running, it is because people have dropped. Hard to cast magic while bleeding out.

We went through this a while back: people forget about attacks from Bonus Actions and Reactions. The Fighter needs to use Action Surge for combat just to stay level. Note also that I'm dropping the extra ASIs at levels 6 and 14, so the Fighter no longer has higher combat stats.

I did miss that, but I don't agree with that decision. Fighters having more feats feels really good to me.

How often are your PCs going to get to that high a level? And are you limiting your thinking to pure combat? That Action Surge could be used in part for movement, zooming round the battlefield, perhaps only attacking half the time.

We've gotten there a few times.

And, I generally don't have my set piece combats set up with the need to spend multiple turns dashing towards the enemy. That would be unfair to just about every martial class who isn't using a bow.

So, yeah, they would use this in combat and they likely wouldn't even get the full benefit, because any opposition would be devastated before this monstrous wave of attacks. Look, I get that not everything is about combat. But, you have to account for the fact that players will save resources to use them in combat. And Action Surge is a combat ability 90% of the time in my experience. So, if I gave players that big of a boost to one of the most powerful combat abilities they have... it would be too much
 

NotAYakk

Legend
If there are 3 doors with 80, 70 and a toy, and 60 and 3 chickens, and the doors are not secret (you know what is behnind tye door before you open it) the alternstive subclass with 1 door gets 80.

And the "you can only pick 80" subclass is worse; it is no better, and has fewer options. The only benefit over the one with choice is if you have an obsession with chickens and would pick them against your long term interests.

And sure, nerf BM or fix other subclasses is the conclusion I reach.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
Okay, I took some time, rewrote a few things based on the advice from this thread. I'm also going to include the Base Fighter and the Banneret in this. Lots of spoiler boxes.

Base Fighter Abilities​


Fighting Styles -> Some changed, but mostly not

You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty.

Choose one of the following options. You can’t take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

Archery
You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.

Blind Fighting
You have blindsight with a range of 10 feet. Within that range, you can effectively see anything that isn’t behind total cover, even if you’re blinded or in darkness. Moreover, you can see an invisible creature within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you.

Defense
While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.

Dueling
When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.

Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.

Interception
When a creature you can see hits a target that is within 5 feet of you with an attack, you can use your reaction to reduce the damage the target takes by 1d10 + your proficiency bonus (to a minimum of 0 damage).

You must be wielding a shield or a simple or martial weapon to use this reaction.

Protection
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.

Superior Technique
You learn one maneuver of your choice from among those available to the Battle Master archetype. If a maneuver you use requires your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver’s effects, the saving throw DC equals 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice).

You gain one superiority die, which is a d6 (this die is added to any superiority dice you have from another source). This die is used to fuel your maneuvers. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.

Two-Weapon Fighting
When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Tunnel Fighter
You excel at defending narrow passages, doorways, and other tight spaces.

As a bonus action, you can enter a defensive stance that lasts until the start of your next turn. While in your defensive stance, you can make opportunity attacks without using your reaction, and you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature that moves more than 5 feet while within your reach.

Thrown Weapon Fighting
You can draw a weapon that has the thrown property as part of the attack you make with the weapon.

In addition, when you hit with a ranged attack using a thrown weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll.

Additionally, you do not suffer disadvantage for attacking at long range with a thrown weapon.

Unarmed Fighting
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8.

When you successfully start a grapple, you can deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to the grappled creature. Until the grapple ends, you can also deal this damage to the creature at the start of each of your turns.


(I don't like this one. I haven't gotten rid of it yet, but I do not like it)

Second Wind -> Increased Die at levels
You have a limited well of stamina that you can draw on to protect yourself from harm.

On your turn, you can use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level. This die increases to 2d10 at level 5, 3d10 at level 11 and 4d10 at level 17.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Action Surge -> No Change
Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment.

On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.

ASIs are unchanged from Base

Extra Attack -> No Change
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.

Indomitable -> Got to thinking about how this could use a small boost. Now you get advantage on the save at level 17.

Beginning at 9th level, you can reroll a saving throw that you fail. If you do so, you must use the new roll, and you can’t use this feature again until you finish a long rest.

You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 13th level and three times between long rests starting at 17th level.

Additionally, at level 17, the re-roll is done at advantage.

Icon of War -> This is my new Capstone. Yes, they also get their 4th attack, but this gives them something truly epic I think.

At 20th level, your prowess on the battlefield is unmatched. You increase your proficiency bonus to +7, all attacks with non-magical weapons count as magical for the purposes of overcoming Immunity and Damage Resistance.

Additionally, your sheer prescence is overwhelming. Enemies must succeed a Wisdom saving throw vs a DC of 8 + prof + (your choice of str, con or dex) to move within 15 ft of you. Once they make this save, they are immune to this effect until you drop an enemy to zero hp or score a critical hit.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Champion​


Improved Critical - Unchanged
Beginning when you choose this archetype at 3rd level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 19 or 20
.

Improved Second Wind - Unchanged
You gain a second use of Second Wind per short rest at 3rd level.

Remarkable Athlete - Unchanged
Starting at 7th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make.

In addition, whenever you jump, the distance you can cover increases by a number of feet equal to your Strength modifier.

Additional Fighting Style - Unchanged
At 10th level, you can choose a second option from the Fighting Style class feature.

"I can do this all day" -> The second I added this in, alongside the other changes, I realized I might have made an oopsie. See, not only is this a big heal from 0... but in 5 levels gets maximized. Meaning you drop to 45 hp as a reaction. That might be too insane.

Starting at 10th level, As a reaction to dropping to zero hp, you can expend one use of your Second Wind. Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.

Superior Critical - Unchanged
Starting at 15th level, your weapon attacks score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20.

Superior Second Wind -> Moved the advantage here considering the massive health spikes now, I elected to not add anything for mental saves.
Starting at 15th level, your Second Wind healing is always maximized.

Additionally, when you use your Second Wind feature, you have advantage on Strength, Constitution and Dexterity Saving Throws until the end of your next turn.

Survivor - Unchanged, and almost seems cute next to the Second Wind Spikes now. Might have to do something else.
At 18th level, you attain the pinnacle of resilience in battle.

At the start of each of your turns, you regain hit points equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier if you have no more than half of your hit points left. You don’t gain this benefit if you have 0 hit points.


---------------------------------------

Battle Master​


Combat Superiority - Unchanged
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn maneuvers that are fueled by special dice called superiority dice.

Maneuvers You learn three maneuvers of your choice, which are detailed under “Maneuvers” below. Many maneuvers enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one maneuver per attack.

You learn two additional maneuvers of your choice at 7th, 10th, and 15th level.

Additionally, you can swap out one manuever after a long rest spent meditating and practicing a different technique.

Superiority Dice You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.

You gain another superiority die at 7th level and one more at 15th level.

Saving Throws Some of your maneuvers require your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Maneuver save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice)

Student of War - Unchanged
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice.

Master of a Thousand Plans -> Everyone seemed to be in agreement about giving the Battlemaster something non-combat related here. Eventually, I hit upon a lesser version of Reliable Talent. It still isn't powerful, but being unable to roll below a 5 does help make you a bit more predictable
Starting at 7th level, your study of combat and war has given you the opportunity to plan for any encounter. You can no longer be surprised.

Due to your incredibly skill at planning and procedural thinking, you have prepared in the arenas of your proficiency. When applying your proficiency to a skill or tool check, your die result cannot be less than 5.

Improved Combat Superiority - Unchanged
At 10th level, your superiority dice turn into d10s. At 18th level, they turn into dl2s.

Relentless -> Went with the regen of 1 die instead of what I had. Kept the disadvantage though
Starting at 10th level, when you roll initiative you regain 1 superiority die.

Additionally, if a creature fails a save against one of your manuevers during the round, they have disadvantage against further manuevers until the end of your next turn.


Battlefield Tactics - Unchanged
Beginning at 15th level your command of the battlefield is unmathced.

When initiative is rolled you can spend your reaction to shout a signal to your allies. Each Ally within 60 ft of you can use their reaction to move their full speed, without provoking opportunity attacks or take the Dodge action. You can use this ability once per short rest.

Lord of Battle - Unchanged
By 18th level, your knowledge of the art of combat is unmatched. Enemies cannot have advantage when attacking you

Additionally, if you roll a 1 on a damage die for a weapon attack, you may re-roll. If you already have a re-roll due to Great Weapon Fighting Style, Savage Attacker, or a similar ability maximize the die instead.



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And now, because it came up and also interacts with the Second Wind changes, though in a different way, my take on the Banneret. The big thing I wanted to do with them is play with the obvious association from the name. The guy who holds the Flag. From there, I ended up with something a little bit Paladin and a little bit Warlord.

I'm not posting my reasonings, because these are such massive changes, but I am willing to talk about what I was attempting to achieve with each ability.

Banneret​


Banner​

At 3rd level, the next time you take a long rest, you can craft a banner, or use an existing one, to represent your order.

While you are displaying or holding your banner and you are not incapacitated, all allies within 10 feet have a bonus to saving throws against being frightened or charmed equal to your Charisma Modifer (minimum +1), provided they can see your banner. At 7th and 15th level, the bonus increases by +1 and the range increases by 10 feet.

While you are holding the banner you gain a +1 to AC, and you may make a special action to make a speech to inspire your allies and frightened hostile creatures. Each ally within the range of the banner’s aura add your Charisma modifier to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma saving throws. Each hostile creature within the range of the banner’s aura must make a Wisdom saving throw, or be frightened of you. These effects last for 1 minute, until you die, or until you are not holding your banner. Creatures who failed the save may attempt the saving throw at the end of each of their turns.

You must finish a long rest before using this special action again.

Banner Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

If your banner is lost or destroyed, you can make a new one using 50 gp in raw materials and a skill check using Weaver’s Tools over the course of an hour or a short rest.

Rallying Cry​

When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you learn how to inspire your allies to fight on past their injuries.

When you use your Second Wind feature in combat, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to your fighter level + your Charisma Modifier. If you are holding the banner and the healing from this ability would raise a creature over their max hp, any remaining healing becomes temporary hp

You gain a second use of Second Wind at level 10 and a third at level 15.

Huh... oops. I guess I already gave multiple second winds to the Banneret. Might have to change that. I thought I did something else. It might work out, they don't get the second use until level 10 (when the Champion is getting their reaction) and their 3rd at 15th (when the champion maximizes and gets advantage on saves).


Royal Envoy​

A Banneret serves as an envoy of the crown. Bannerets of high standing are expected to conduct themselves with grace.

At 7th level, you gain proficiency in the Persuasion skill and two languages of your choice.

If you are already proficient in persuasion, you gain proficiency in one of the following skills of your choice: Animal Handling, Insight, Intimidation, or Performance.

Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses Persuasion. You receive this benefit regardless of the skill proficiency you gain from this feature.

Inspiring Act​

Starting at 10th level, whenever you use your Action Surge feature or whenever you score a critical hit on a creature with a weapon attack, you can immediately choose one allied creature within 30 feet of you that can see or hear you. That creature can make one weapon attack with its reaction. If you are holding your banner, the attack gains a bonus to hit and damage equal to your Charisman modifier (minimum +1)

Starting at 18th level, you can choose two allies within 60 feet of you, rather than one.

Bulwark​

Beginning at 15th level, you can inspire your allies to push through the darkest hours.

When an ally within 60 ft of you fails a saving throw and you aren't incapacitated, you can spend your reaction to allow them to reroll the failed save, though they must keep the new result. If the ally is within your Banner's aura, they get a bonus to the new roll equal to your charisma modifier.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your charisma modifier (minimum 1) and regain all uses on a long rest.

Beacon of Battle​

At 18th level, you have become synonmous with your banner. As long as you are concious, you act as though you are holding your banner for every ability that requires it, and your speech action (from level 3) recharges on a short rest.

While holding the banner, your AC bonus increases to +2, and you gain a new special action.

You let out a righteous call, every ally within 120 ft of you can move up to half their speed without spending a reaction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Any ally that ends this movement next to an enemy may use their reaction to make a single melee attack, adding half your fighter level to the damage. If the enemy is frightened, the attack has advantage.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
Two-Weapon Fighting
* The other "extra damage" scale in fundamental ways with # of attacks.

This ... doesn't.

What I did was merge Dueling, Thrown and TWF into one style:

When you make an attack with a melee or thrown weapon in one hand, you add +2 damage. You can draw a weapon as part of the action of making an attack with it.

+2 per tap is better than +attribute for TWF before you have +4 attribute (which is level 1 to 3 at least).

By level 5, +2 per tap beats +5 to attribute. Only at level 4 can you possibly fall behind.

I then folded "attribute bonus to damage" into an improved dual wielder feat, mainly because I like the idea of the PC not caring which weapon hits when attacking with paired weapons.
 

Stalker0

Legend
On Icon of War, I would just say "once they save they are immune" and be done with it. That's how most fear auras work, and its already a very good ability on top of the big extra attack (and +1 extra to basically everything)...I really don't think they need more.

I can do this all day. It feels like we are stepping on the toes of the barbarian here. You have already given the fighter a nice increase in survivability due to the second wind increase, I think this is overkill. The "keeping fighting even when brought to near death" is the barbarian's schtick.

What I did was merge Dueling, Thrown and TWF into one style:

When you make an attack with a melee or thrown weapon in one hand, you add +2 damage. You can draw a weapon as part of the action of making an attack with it.
I did something similar but I did my merging a little differently.

Merged TWF, Dueling, and Great Weapon Fighting into:

Offense: Gain +2 damage on all melee attacks, +3 if the weapon is heavy or versatile and used in two hands.
 

NotAYakk

Legend
On Icon of War, I would just say "once they save they are immune" and be done with it. That's how most fear auras work, and its already a very good ability on top of the big extra attack (and +1 extra to basically everything)...I really don't think they need more.

I can do this all day. It feels like we are stepping on the toes of the barbarian here. You have already given the fighter a nice increase in survivability due to the second wind increase, I think this is overkill. The "keeping fighting even when brought to near death" is the barbarian's schtick.


I did something similar but I did my merging a little differently.

Merged TWF, Dueling, and Great Weapon Fighting into:

Offense: Gain +2 damage on all melee attacks, +3 if the weapon is heavy or versatile and used in two hands.
Not bad.

My GWF does "if you roll an even number, add 1/2 of the max value of the die". I also permit you to use it with any versatile or two handed weapon wielded in both hands.

1dX gains X/4 additional damage. So it adds 1/4 of the max damage your attack can do, on average.

2d6 gets +3 on average, 1d12 gets +3 on average, 1d10 gets +2.5 on average, 1d8 gets +2 on average.

It scales with crits, and it keeps some of the difference between 2d6 and 1d12 (2d6 is more reliable with 0.5 extra damage on average, and 1d12 is swingier).
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
On Icon of War, I would just say "once they save they are immune" and be done with it. That's how most fear auras work, and its already a very good ability on top of the big extra attack (and +1 extra to basically everything)...I really don't think they need more.

Potentially, but this is a fear aura at level 20. A lot of things are immune, a lot of things have great wisdom saves. Sure, this keeps the mooks from charging you, but I liked the idea of potentially slowly demoralizing the Boss because you are killing those minions one after the other.

Still, you might be right.

I can do this all day. It feels like we are stepping on the toes of the barbarian here. You have already given the fighter a nice increase in survivability due to the second wind increase, I think this is overkill. The "keeping fighting even when brought to near death" is the barbarian's schtick.

Yeah. I loved the suggestion from... crap I forgot who suggested it. But once I saw both features combined I started thinking it was far too much.
 

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