Homosexuality in your games

[ComradeGnull]

Actually, now that I think about it, there was a lot more of a tendency for homosexual pcs in World of Darkness games, probably because the game itself supported emotional or romance-based games better than D&D.

That's what I would expect. D&D is just not very relationship-oriented in general, and neither are most of the other major RPGs. I would consider playing a gay character in something like Vampire (if I played) as it might make for an interesting plot hook, but assigning a sexual orientation and identity to a D&D character is, in most cases, like assigning your cat a favorite color. If it happened to come up in a game, I would probably make it up on the spot rather than invest a lot of effort in creating a background that probably is never going to be employed in-game.

 

[Umbran]

Also, I could argue that, with all the information at our fingertips, lac of exposure is intentional, not accidental.

Right. Because stepping up to Google and typing, "homosexuality" is going to properly educate anyone?

More seriously, though - the human race now has more information than a single person could ever learn. Even if one intends to learn everything, it is not possible to do. Not having gotten around to your particular favorite does not constitute a failing or willful ignorance on someone else's part.

And, to be honest, if one was interested in enhancing understanding of homosexuality in the world, RPGs (with their honestly tiny market) seems a pretty inefficient vehicle. For a given amount of effort spent, the return is small.

 

[Celebrim]

The important thing to keep in mind is that for the most part hetrosexuality doesn't occur in my games either. I run a PG-13 game for the most part, and graphic depictions of anything don't usually occur. Sexuality is assumed to occur, but it happens mostly off stage and unless it has some obvious result like a child, you'd pretty much never know about it even implicitly. Sure, there are prostitutes - male and female - but if a character spends their gold on one, the player doesn't recieve a description of the events that occur. Sure, since the world is largely inspired by the historical real one, there are fertility cults, pirates practicing sodomy, catamites, occasional adult male lovers, and presumably all the rest of the gritty reality of life. But, my games aren't generally about sexuality, whether homoerotic or merely erotic. The existing social orders of the game world are implicitly favoring hetrosexuality, but that isn't really a comment on or against homosexuality. It's more a comment on the fact that in an agarian culture of subsistance farmers, large families tend to be favored for the resulting dependable labor, and amongst an inherited noble caste regardless of their sexual predilictions, one of their principle duties is producing an heir to continue the families legacy of wealth and power. Monarchies that don't produce a legitimate heir, don't last long, so that gets taken care of and spouses are acquired regardless of whatever else is going on on the side (and off camera). But again, my games aren't actually about any of that, so we never really wrestle with those questions or try to resolve them. My games aren't about having sex any more than they are about being parents and raising kids, and since I have to be all the NPC's I tend to avoid all sex scenes as uncomfortable for everyone at the table regardless of gender or sexual preferences.

I should note that until recently, 2 of my 6 players were gay. And yes, one of them was playing a campy androgenous elven prostitute.

What I think you should note is that if you had played an overtly sexual or sexualized hetrosexual character, you'd have had the same experience. You would have been a sourco of comedy all the same, regardless of gender. Sexualized male characters would recieve the same jokes. Sexualized female characters would still recieve the same mockery. This has much less to do with homosexuality than it has to do with making sexuality the defining characteristic of your character. As far as it goes, I have not known the sexuality of 80-90% of the PC's in my games because it simply hasn't come up. It wasn't part of their character. Since they were effectively chaste and celibate, there was no way of knowing what their sexuality was. Since most of my players were hetrosexual, I suppose I could assume that should it come up, they would have had hetrosexual characters, but that's just an assumption. None of them wrote up in their background anything to do with sex, nor did they seek it out in play. So, as soon as any character makes sexuality an explicit part of their characterization, whether its the fighter going to the brothels as soon as he reaches town or the campy gay character, that's the most salient trait of that character. That's not discrimination. That's just human nature.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Part of the social contract at my table is we do not get deeply into sex of any variety.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

No offence intended. There is nothing wrong with puberty.

Not sure how to take this comment. On the one hand you say no offense intended, on the other you reaffirm that you think anyone who enjoys seeing a woman in a chainmail bikini must be stuck in puberty.

Uhmm... I thought the humour in that sentence would be more obvious...

Fair enough, given the context of the reference I didn't see a joke.

I mentioned a few things in a previous post. Would you mind taking a quick look? I rather not type the whole thing again.

I re-read those things you mentioned. What would you say would be heterosexual equavalents? Have you seen such things in your game? If so, how did the group respond?

But you haven't had a gay character. I understand you know your group, but I also think you'd be surprised if you did have a gay character.

To be clear, when I say I haven't "had" a gay character, I mean to say I haven't played one, though I also haven't had one in my game period.

You seem to be suggesting that despite my statement, my group would respond differently than I suspect to a gay character. There's no way to prove your statement, nor my refutation of it, though, so I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.

I will say this, though, that I've known my gaming group for over ten years now. They visited me regularly while I was hospitalized for months due to illness. I'd like to think that I might have a better handle on whether they are closet bigots than a complete stranger.

And you think that gay issues only affect gay characters? You think your games wouldn't benefit from bringing something as different as a gay situation into a straight table?

I think that I'm running/playing a game for entertainment, not teaching a college course on gender issues. So no, I don't think my games would "benefit" from the insertion of "gay issues" into the game. I tend to not touch upon substance abuse, incest, the Asian sex trade, and a myriad of other "issues" as well.

I'd like to expand on this slightly, though. I am not saying I avoid "gay issues" per se, any more than I avoid those other issues actually. If a good campaign plotline or villain, etc. occurred to me that involved one of these things, I could see using it. Perhaps the villain's gay lover is killed due to prejudice and he's out for revenge. Perhaps the villain is someone who killed someone because they were gay, etc. I have in one specific instance touched on rape very briefly.

But you seem to have this idea that "gay issues" need to be inserted into as many games as possible, out of some kind of social obligation, and that groups that do not choose to do so are suspect of being close-minded or, let's just say it, bigoted.

I am saying that that could indeed be the case, not that it always is.

It's this I take exception to. "If you aren't putting gay NPCs into your worlds, or playing gay characters, maybe you're a bigot."

 

[Morrus]

I am not talking just about playing gay characters around the table, I am also talking about authors who write book after book after book without making the slightest concession to the existence of homosexuality in their games and adventures.

That's a little disingenuous. They also don't explicitly address the existence of currant buns or underpants. Maybe they should, but let's not pretend there's any anti-homosexual agenda going on there.

I'll agree with those who have been sensitive to an underlying unspoken accusation of bigotry simply because they don't actively campaign for a given issue - especially during their games. Maybe that accusation isn't there, but it sure feels like it is. Most of us simpl do not even thin about gender or sexuality in a game; we think about killing things and taking their stuff. Or, if we're feeling a bit more cerebral, we think about spoiling the BBG's Machievellian plot.

But we don't think black/white, gay/straight, east/west, right/left etc. We just think "good/evil".

 

[Celebrim]

But you seem to have this idea that "gay issues" need to be inserted into as many games as possible, out of some kind of social obligation, and that groups that do not choose to do so are suspect of being close-minded or, let's just say it, bigoted.

It's this I take exception to. "If you aren't putting gay NPCs into your worlds, or playing gay characters, maybe you're a bigot."

That's pretty much the heart of my problem with the complaint as well. I think that its very easy to just assert 'bigotry' as a reflexive complaint against anyone who acts, thinks, or behaves in any way different than you. Similarly, I most often see 'close-minded' used in a way that suggests, 'anyone that doesn't agree with me'.

I can see how homosexuality might be a bigger part of the OP's life than it is mine, but not how my game is going to improve by making homosexuality - or really sexuality of any sort - a bigger part of my table. The presence or absence of any particular thing in my game world generally has nothing to do with my real world approval or disapproval of the thing, but what I think makes for a good friendly enjoyable social game where the drama stays in the game rather than bubbling out into the real world and real friendships. And to a lesser extent, it reflects the questions I'm interested in which are usually more like: "Do the means justify the ends?" or "What is the nature of justice?"

 

[S'mon]

Also... your second sentence. After 20 years of gaming, you can bet your bottom dollar (and the top one too) that I have played non-camp characters.

Then try doing it with this group that you have been complaining about.

However, if nobody else in the group is interested in exploring the sexuality of their PC or your PC, then it is not the game for you to be doing so. If you appear to be seeking special-snowflake treatment then you may get a bad reaction. For instance, it is usually not a good idea to be creating a personal deity tailored to your PC unless other people are doing the same, or the GM has previously made clear that this is expected/ok for this campaign.

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I suppose it's worth noting that sexuality is, at the most fundamental level, a part of the human condition. I have seen more than a few homosexual characters portrayed at my table over the years, and I've had (and still have) the occasional openly gay or bisexual player, as well. Character sexuality is a core idiom of a realized personality, and my group is heavily devoted to crafting and experiencing the world through very realized characters. That being said, it only comes into play when and if matters of sexual identity and/or preference happen to emerge in the story or roleplaying scenario... which isn't to say story elements that revolve around sex. The influence of sexual identity - how we perceive ourselves, our roles, and our expectations as they relate to gender and sexuality - is Psychology 101.

As part of a realistic world, some of my NPCs over the years have also demonstrated homosexual or bisexual preferences. Sometimes it's understated or doesn't even come up, and sometimes it can influence the development of events. It's just part of who they are. Romance and desire are part of life, and can certainly have an effect in a story of high adventure. My players enjoy and expect a world with realized individuals.

No agenda... just an eye toward immersion. And to be fair, if I was running games for a group of guys who were uncomfortable around homosexuality, I wouldn't incorporate it in my games... much as I don't run games with other objectionable content - like torture or rape - around people who don't want that in their gaming experience. My typical group likes it edgy, likes complex challenges and characterization, and wants a powerful and layered social environment with which to interact.

 

[Whatthehell]

I enjoy seeing pretty women in skimpy clothes.
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I ask because I pretty much never bring up heterosexuality in the game.
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It's been a while since any of my PCs have found an NPC of any interest.
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Why do you feel that this was due to you (or more specifically your character's) sexuality, rather than the general raunchiness of the group as a whole?
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I see no reason to shoehorn homosexuality into my games when everyone at the table is hetero.

Are you suggesting that someone willing to play a female character but not a gay one is close-minded and intolerant?

Yes. What the hell is wrong with you?