D&D 5E (2024) Homunculus Servant, Conjure Constructs, Deryan's Helpful Homunculi have class restrictions that make no sense

[Distracted DM]

Yeah I'm still thinking of artificers as actual item creators, like in 3e where they were just really good at creating real magic items. They got the feats included with their class as well as reserve xp to create them. I think that's why they anchored themselves in my mind as The Magic Item Creators, but you're right ofc that wizards were known for making that type of stuff before artificers. It's just that it was the core identity of the artificer class, and that's how it anchored itself in the fiction (for me).

 

[Mephista]

Magic items were largely created in the past, by greater civilizations, that's why we delve into dangerous dungeons, for treasures of the past including magics that are greater than anything we can create now (lost knowledge, post post apocalypse, forgotten Roman tech analogue). Artificers don't make a lot of sense here, unless your artificer is relatively unique.

I'm always torn between these two for my own games. I like the romanticism of the latter but the former is more desirable by players and practical from certain GM standpoints.

I mean, are you talking about brewing healing potions and scribing scrolls too? Reanimator is basically Dr. Frankenstein, who very much is about pseudo-necromancer instead of ancient arts. Artilerist can be reflavored easily from wand slinger to using actual gunpowder.

Even in a low-magic fantsy setting, artificer can fit in if you keep it to low levels and less grand machinery.

 

[Mephista]

Yeah I'm still thinking of artificers as actual item creators, like in 3e where they were just really good at creating real magic items. They got the feats included with their class as well as reserve xp to create them. I think that's why they anchored themselves in my mind as The Magic Item Creators, but you're right ofc that wizards were known for making that type of stuff before artificers. It's just that it was the core identity of the artificer class, and that's how it anchored itself in the fiction (for me).

Much like the Fighter has had the ranger, paladin and barbarian identies stripped from them and turned into their own class... wizard has had sorcerer, warlock and artificer concepts sundered from them as well.

Artificer absolutely is the item creation guy now, not the wizard. Not any more.

 

[Worrgrendel]

Regarding "artificers would fit into most settings," is there a magic item creation conflict of identity?

A setting may be:
magic is everywhere, artificers fit in, magic item creation is common enough to justify it. Forgotten realms and eberron are big callouts for this, they have very common magic.

Or:

Magic items were largely created in the past, by greater civilizations, that's why we delve into dangerous dungeons, for treasures of the past including magics that are greater than anything we can create now (lost knowledge, post post apocalypse, forgotten Roman tech analogue). Artificers don't make a lot of sense here, unless your artificer is relatively unique.

I'm always torn between these two for my own games. I like the romanticism of the latter but the former is more desirable by players and practical from certain GM standpoints.

See, for me, I’ve always disliked your second premise. How “great” and “advanced” were they really if they’re not around anymore? Every single civilization that is in the world’s current time frame, by default, is greater than they ever were simply by existing.

 

[Distracted DM]

See, for me, I’ve always disliked your second premise. How “great” and “advanced” were they really if they’re not around anymore? Every single civilization that is in the world’s current time frame, by default, is greater than they ever were simply by existing.

That is quite a hot take

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That is quite a hot take

Not really. The modern age is objectively better to live in than ancient Rome.

That was the case even before we figured out how they made self-repairing concrete.

Even the Middle Ages werent this terrible drop into an abyss that Voltaire and his peers would have history believe. They made better weapons in 1100 AD than they did in 100 AD. Better paint, too. Among other things. Musical instruments and musical composition advanced. Writing and the making if writing tools advanced. Alchemy advanced in many ways.

For everything lost two things are gained. That isnt a hot take it is just history.

 

[Distracted DM]

Not really. The modern age is objectively better to live in than ancient Rome.

That was the case even before we figured out how they made self-repairing concrete.

Even the Middle Ages werent this terrible drop into an abyss that Voltaire and his peers would have history believe. They made better weapons in 1100 AD than they did in 100 AD. Better paint, too. Among other things. Musical instruments and musical composition advanced. Writing and the making if writing tools advanced. Alchemy advanced in many ways.

For everything lost two things are gained. That isnt a hot take it is just history.

If you want to skip the centuries of picking up the pieces of what was lost after Rome, sure, we’re better off now than we were millennia ago. But many, many fantasy tropes, what I was talking about, are post-post apocalyptic worlds.

Lord of the Rings, Conan, Moorcock, Arthurian Myth, ASoIaF, uncountable other fantasy series, foundational comics, all of these deal with worlds where more powerful/advanced civilizations fell, the land was thrown into chaos, and now people are still trying to learn how that now-extinct civilization had their power, or they make use of the leavings of those greater civilizations. Even DnD, the thing we’re talking about, has stuff like Netheril.
To say “a past civilization is by definition worse than ones currently in existence because they’re gone and current ones exist currently” is naïve.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We don’t know that past civilisations weren’t more advanced than what we have now. The more advanced the technology, the more effectively people (who may not be human) can wipe themselves out.